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Thread: Myths about 3s

  1. #11
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    You and I will just have to agree to disagree on this.

    Hostility:

    "Like the other personality types of this Center, Threes have a problem with hostility which manifests itself as vindictive malice toward anyone who they believe threatens their self image. While Twos and Fours are indirectly hostile, average to unhealthy Threes are more openly hostile in a wide variety of ways, from arrogantly distancing themselves, to snide humor at others’ expense, to sarcastic putdowns, to sabotaging and betraying people. Hostility serves Threes in two ways: first it compensates for their own feelings of inadequacy, and second, it keeps away people who, for one reason or another, undermine their fragile self-esteem. In this latter regard, less healthy Threes may even be hostile to people who they admire or to whom they are attracted."

    Sensitivity:
    "Like ONES and TWOS, THREES report being sensitive and susceptible to criticism and rejection. They feel hurt when they are not paid attention to or don’t receive recognition."

    (This is why I said that sensitivity is largely based on health for 3.) I think manipulation and Machiavellian are manifestations of sensitivity. Even when 3's become extremely healthy, they are still highly sensitive to others conditions because when the 3 is "real" at its highest levels of health they identify deeply with others.

    The "something external they compare themselves with" is to gain admiration and recognition in the eyes of people unless they are healthy and follow their own hearts. Your looking at what their doing and not why. It always leads back to recognition from people. The fixation is that all their projects and performance is done to get admiration (from people) and it is only when threes allow themselves to fail (through bankruptcy, divorce, illness, etc) that their image is shattered and their real self emerges.
    you're right, we are gonna have to disagree with this.
    though just out of curiosity, what are the sources you've quoted?
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Jerome Wagner Spectrum of Enneagram but alot of the books will discuss how sensitivity and hostility manifest in 3.

    That should be Enneagram Spectrum of Personality Types, lol.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  3. #13
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    @Huxley3112
    a few points I believe you were off on
    - even unhealthy 3s are not very sensitive, they just tend to become more Machiavellian and manipulative.
    Well, define "sensitive." If you mean easily moved to tears and openly sentimental, than I'm not sensitive. If you mean being introspective and deeply moved by something even if you don't show it, then that would describe me.

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    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloud of Thunder View Post
    Well, define "sensitive." If you mean easily moved to tears and openly sentimental, than I'm not sensitive. If you mean being introspective and deeply moved by something even if you don't show it, then that would describe me.
    I meant the former, with the latter being common among 3w4s
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  5. #15
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    3) 3s are sensitive and their egos are easily offended
    no again. 3s are a forward looking type. they're much more focused on their goals and ambitions than they are on you.
    I'm going to have to agree with Huxley on this one and say that (unhealthy to average) 3s are sensitive in the sense that they are receptive to others' perceptions of them, especially with the Social variant. With the Social-last, then maybe not.

    For the most part, they DO care about what others think of them and will feel dejected if people don't perceive them positively, even if they choose not to show it. Sometimes they outlet this by simply acting like a badass who doesn't care and fixing whatever they think they need to fix diligently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    I'm going to have to agree with Huxley on this one and say that (unhealthy to average) 3s are sensitive in the sense that they are receptive to others' perceptions of them, especially with the Social variant. With the Social-last, then maybe not.
    Here's a thing:
    Threes report that when they realize to what extent they have adapted their lives to the expectations of others, the question arises, “Well, then, what do I want?” They often simply did not know; it was not a question that had ever come up before. Thus, the fundamental dilemma of Threes is that they have not been allowed to be who they really are and to manifest their own authentic qualities. At a young age, they got the message that they were not allowed to have feelings and be themselves: they must, in effect, be someone else to be accepted.
    Though some sources describe 3s as extremely action-oriented and openly narcissistic, this sort of idea of the 3 is one that resonates with me the most. I don't think that wanting to feel accepted and valued necessarily means being extremely pushy and flashy. For what it's worth, I might identify with self-pres first if most descriptions didn't peg it as materialistic.

    I'm gonna have to pick up some Huxley; probably one of the few prominent Enneagram authors that I haven't read.

    wait, what? I was thinking of someone else. There's some prominent Enneagram author that I haven't read

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Here's a thing:

    Though some sources describe 3s as extremely action-oriented and openly narcissistic, this sort of idea of the 3 is one that resonates with me the most. I don't think that wanting to feel accepted and valued necessarily means being extremely pushy and flashy.

    I'm gonna have to pick up some Huxley; probably one of the few prominent Enneagram authors that I haven't read.
    You know, me too. What is it that I want? I mean, not really anything...
    What do you want?

  8. #18
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Yesterday this exact question came up between myself and my partner (e9).. I was explaining different concepts of the e-gram and in talking it out with him I explained that (imo) what a 3 want's the most is to to be truly good enough, as is. Some of my thoughts and feeling on this may be colored by a 4wing, but I actually relate to that 2 wing as well. For whatever reason (parental orientation or other) the 3's greatest fear is that underneath it all, they are worthless, unacceptable, unloveable, as IS. What they do is so dam interwoven with their own value.. and it does not have to be "the great achiever" as Bologna mentions. I really dislike that description because it misses the target, for me anyways. It can be what I do for other people, if I am entertaining enough, funny enough, accomplished enough, insightful enough, and on. I must be exceptional in some way. This sounds general ofcourse, because I'm sure many types can feel this to some extent, but for the 3 it is everything. I told my e9 that what I think I need to feel is that if I never did anything exceptional for the rest of my life, I would still be worthwhile and accepted.. and I question if this is the case.

    The more I understand this, the more I begin to look inside myself and tap at different things that make me tick without others validation or needing it to become some extension of my self identity.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  9. #19
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    "If you ain't first, you're last." --Ricky Bobby

    I keep getting told to stop climbing the mountain and enjoy the damn view once in a while. At my worst, that advice makes me cringe; it feels as though if I actually stop to enjoy the fruits of my labor, become complacent, or rest on my laurels, then I'm wasting time--and time is a finite, continually depleting resource. I'll fall behind if I don't make the most of it, and I'll drown if I don't stay on top of things.

    Being young, that shouldn't be something that I worry about, but I still manage to.

    If I'm too efficient at work, and if I get things done extremely quickly, then I wind up wondering whether there's something that I'm missing or something more that I should be doing to stay on top. No matter how much positive external feedback I get (though I don't really actively seek out that feedback), it's usually not as reassuring as I initially thought it'd be.

    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    You know, me too. What is it that I want? I mean, not really anything...
    What do you want?
    Good question

    There's a whole fat ton that I've wanted, but..
    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    what I think I need to feel is that if I never did anything exceptional for the rest of my life, I would still be worthwhile and accepted.. and I question if this is the case.
    ...really, I want to strive for accomplishments and recognition because, say, they bring freedom and comfort--that is, to tackle things for the 'right' reasons.

    My high expectations of myself lead me to want it all--inside and out. At my worst, I get the feeling that if I'm a worthwhile person, then the feedback that the world gives me would reflect that. Thankfully, I don't readily fall into the trap of outright deceiving others or myself.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    I can identify, and I do not wan't to stop participating in life or anything, lol... I just think a key to the 3's fixation is getting in touch with their own feelings and doing things because they genuinely love it or find interest in it, less so because of a need to establish worth and self-identity through external standards. When the 3 understands that they have inherent value, that who they are is good enough.. they move from human-doing into human-being. A great barrier is lifted that allows them to explore and connect with their true feelings, with what they really wan't.
    I think a good question to ask a 3 that doesn't know what they want is: If you could never again get attention, credit, or validation from the outside world for who you are or what you do.. how would you pass your time? What would spin your wheels?"

    Growthpoint: "When threes move to six, they no longer worry about impressing others with their prestige, success or status, nor do they aggrandize themselves at the expense of others. THey use their talents to affirm the value of others, which allows them to experience their own true value. By learning to work for and serve causes that will not necessarily bring them direction attention or praise, threes begin to open their hearts and discover real sources of self-esteem. They are fulfilled by the rich cooperation with others for shared goals and discover that their commitment to others brings them more affirmation, love and support than their drive for success and competitiveness ever could. Most profoundly though, and without noticing, they have learned to stop focusing on their own image and their real self emerges: being in touch with the goodness of their own hearts fills them with more joy and serentiy than they could ever imagine."
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

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