[Type 6] Sx 6 and Borderline PD

[skylights]

EDIT - I don't think I have BPD. I am not self-diagnosing with BPD. I am interested in the overlap between Sx 6 and BPD and common etiology.

Yesterday I had a particularly bad day (thank you, hormones) and my boyfriend and I together realized that I lean quite a bit towards having borderline tendencies, and upon further research I am beginning to see quite a correlation between Sexual Six issues and borderline issues, and I was wondering if any other Sexual subtypes, Sixes, or especially Sexual Sixes have experienced similar issues and/or have any thoughts on the topic.

From the Wiki page, BPD's features include:

• unstable interpersonal relationships
• affective (mood) distress
• impulsivity
• unstable self image
• frequent, strong, and lasting states of aversive tension triggered by perceived reection, being alone, or perceived failure
• changeability between anger and anxiety or depression and anxiety
• temperamental sensitivity to emotive stimuli
• feelings of emptiness
• self-injury

Personally, I do struggle with almost all of those bullets, except I have never self-injured, have relatively low/normal impulsivity, and my close relationships are relatively stable, though they have regular bouts of intense turmoil (brought on by either person but admittedly blown up by my insecurity).

One of the most significant motivations of an individual with BPD is to avoid abandonment, and, as a Sexual 6, I see that as a pretty significant motivation of my own.

Incidentally, the 6 enneatype is suggested to be correlated with either two very supportive and perhaps overprotective parents (moreso for phobic 6) or by trauma in childhood, and BPD is also closely related to traumatic childhood events and PTSD.

6s, Sxs, any thoughts?

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]
I tend to associate BPD more with 4s than 6s

 

[Santosha]

I think Oldham was correct in BPD correlating more to 4w3, but I also believe any e-type could have this. I have *some* of the symptoms as well, but not others like self harm, suicidal thoughts or sexual promiscuity. I don't have enough of the behaviors to diagnose as BPD.. but I have still looked into it alot for self-understanding.

I can tell you that the majority of BPD cases suffered verbal, psychological or sexual abuse as young children. They received such drastically different responses from their care-takers that developing any consistent sense of identity became very difficult. It seems to be a combination of genetic makeup, temperament and early childhood experiences. The biggest tip-off for BPD is an inability to regulate emotional response. fMRI has found a physiological correlation to BPD, the region of the brain that would control or regulate emotions is low activity or no activity. The best way to think about BPD is someone with no emotional skin. Most people with BPD have higher than average IQ's and also show high activity in the empathy regions (from the studies I've looked at) which is believed by some to be part of what has created the BPD to begin with.

BPD also has a terrible stigma. When you have someone in alot of pain with little to no ability to regulate their emotions they tend to do hurtful things to themselves and others. Because they feel intensely positive or intensely negative they also project this on the people around them, they are notorious for building their partners up higher than any person ever has, then tearing them to shreds. Many people have many bad things to say about those with BPD and I don't blame them. However, I do think people are prone to judging the actions than actually understanding the emotional landscape and condition.

I also think there is a range to BPD.. those with severe cases end up institutionalized at one point or another, sent to ER's in suicide attempts, etc. Those with moderate BPD can be somewhat functional but have a poor quality of living and a lifetime of broken jobs, relationships, residency and always seem to be searching for a better sense of self. In this way I think that both e4 and e6 could correlate more, sx also looks for the intense connection like BPD does.

BPD is becoming much more treatable with counseling and medication, and people with this condition need to know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, they do not have to endure what they have been enduring and that DBT and medication has shown to be pretty effective in most cases.

 

[UniqueMixture]

Ever heard of hyponania? Does that sound accurate? Random thought

 

[Thalassa]

Ahhh....you can have a fear of abandonment and need for intense closeness without being borderline.

Do you lack a sense of self? Do you easily become the people around you? Do you have problems setting boundaries with anyone? Do you tend to either worship or utterly devalue people?

Be wary of self-diagonsis just because you may be an emotionally clingy person or come across as too intense sometimes.

I mean something *could* be amiss, but it could be a variety of things.

 

[SilkRoad]

Ahhh....you can have a fear of abandonment and need for intense closeness without being borderline.

Do you lack a sense of self? Do you easily become the people around you? Do you have problems setting boundaries with anyone? Do you tend to either worship or utterly devalue people?

Be wary of self-diagonsis just because you may be an emotionally clingy person or come across as too intense sometimes.

I mean something *could* be amiss, but it could be a variety of things.

I've been dealing with someone the last couple of years who certainly has BPD tendencies - I mean, all the above fit her very well. I am not qualified to say she's "BPD" but as I said, she at least has tendencies. It has been pretty draining and I'm extricating myself currently and taking steps to put the responsibility back where it belongs, ie. her parents (she is still fairly young.)

Huxley is right that BPD is very frequently related to serious childhood trauma. In terms of type 6, I think there are so many 6s out there that they must have a lot of different things in their backgrounds. I personally relate very much to the supportive/overprotective parent thing - both of those apply to my parents. There were also times in my childhood when my parents were fighting a lot so although I basically had an extremely supportive background, it was a bit mixed. You could say that I always felt supported, but I often worried about the atmosphere at home or how my parents were getting along.

I definitely don't have BPD tendencies but I do relate somewhat to difficulty setting boundaries (with certain types of people), and I actually have a lot more clingy/stalker tendencies than most people realise. I just hide them extremely well and don't do things to encourage them!

Have you ever been in therapy or do you feel you might benefit from it? It could be worth considering if you are really concerned about your emotional volatility (or whatever) affecting your life and that of others. Sorry, probably none of this is very useful but it's what came to mind.

 

[skylights]

Sorry guys, I think I didn't get my point across well here. I'm not self-diagnosing with BPD - on the contrary, I'm quite aware that I do not fit the criteria. I'm going more along the lines of what [MENTION=12991]Huxley3112[/MENTION] said about looking into it for self-understanding.

fMRI has found a physiological correlation to BPD, the region of the brain that would control or regulate emotions is low activity or no activity. The best way to think about BPD is someone with no emotional skin. Most people with BPD have higher than average IQ's and also show high activity in the empathy regions (from the studies I've looked at) which is believed by some to be part of what has created the BPD to begin with.

That's interesting!

I also think there is a range to BPD.. those with severe cases end up institutionalized at one point or another, sent to ER's in suicide attempts, etc. Those with moderate BPD can be somewhat functional but have a poor quality of living and a lifetime of broken jobs, relationships, residency and always seem to be searching for a better sense of self. In this way I think that both e4 and e6 could correlate more, sx also looks for the intense connection like BPD does.

Yes, exactly. Most mental illness is on a sliding scale, and the criteria chosen are clinical and man-made, not something "real" with a true dividing border beyond a line drawn in the mental-behavioral sand. I think your point about e4 and identity is excellent - very true - and I seem to remember Magic Poriferan referring to 4, 6, and 8 as the "emotionally turbulent" types, who do not actively control (2, 7, 9) or suppress (1, 3, 5) their emotions.

Ever heard of hyponania? Does that sound accurate? Random thought

Yes, and no, but thank you for the idea. One of my professors once raised the point that those who experience hypomania without depression are some of the most creative and prolific people due to their elevated tempo.

Ahhh....you can have a fear of abandonment and need for intense closeness without being borderline.

Do you lack a sense of self? Do you easily become the people around you? Do you have problems setting boundaries with anyone? Do you tend to either worship or utterly devalue people?

Be wary of self-diagonsis just because you may be an emotionally clingy person or come across as too intense sometimes.

I mean something *could* be amiss, but it could be a variety of things.

I'm 100% sure I don't fit borderline criteria, but I found the overlaps between it and being a sexual 6 interesting and thought that perhaps knowledge about BPD would be useful to growing my own self, since I struggle with many of the tendencies. I was curious if anyone else out there had wandered across similar thoughts or experiences.

In terms of type 6, I think there are so many 6s out there that they must have a lot of different things in their backgrounds. I personally relate very much to the supportive/overprotective parent thing - both of those apply to my parents. There were also times in my childhood when my parents were fighting a lot so although I basically had an extremely supportive background, it was a bit mixed. You could say that I always felt supported, but I often worried about the atmosphere at home or how my parents were getting along.

I definitely don't have BPD tendencies but I do relate somewhat to difficulty setting boundaries (with certain types of people), and I actually have a lot more clingy/stalker tendencies than most people realise. I just hide them extremely well and don't do things to encourage them!

Have you ever been in therapy or do you feel you might benefit from it? It could be worth considering if you are really concerned about your emotional volatility (or whatever) affecting your life and that of others. Sorry, probably none of this is very useful but it's what came to mind.

As much as I think therapy is awesome and would be useful for everyone and would love to go, I don't really have the money right now! So I am trying to self-improve instead. I like hearing what you have to say regardless of usefulness

So you said you definitely don't have BPD tendencies - but I have a question - which is as a 6, you are pretty emotionally volatile, right? Do you have strategies for dealing with that and avoiding interpersonal turbulence and unstable mood?

 

[SilkRoad]

As much as I think therapy is awesome and would be useful for everyone and would love to go, I don't really have the money right now! So I am trying to self-improve instead. I like hearing what you have to say regardless of usefulness

So you said you definitely don't have BPD tendencies - but I have a question - which is as a 6, you are pretty emotionally volatile, right? Do you have strategies for dealing with that and avoiding interpersonal turbulence and unstable mood?

I agree therapy is great! Well, potentially great, and yes, I think we should all have it. The only time I've been in therapy was for a phobia. And it was definitely helpful, and I found it interesting too. Although I think I would have benefited even more if I had put more of the techniques, etc into more rigorous practice. It was cognitive behavioural therapy and honestly I think it's very useful for a lot of things in life. (Btw, in that respect I am very fortunate to live in the UK. I know that public vs private health care is a contentious issue, but the UK has public health care so I got therapy for FREE. I was actually very impressed that they would do that for me for a fear of flying phobia, given that I wasn't exactly about to kill myself or something, and I hadn't reached a point of not being able to get on a plane...)

As for your other question. Well, I don't think I'm very emotionally volatile. I probably look more like a 9 and as I've probably mentioned to you I considered 9 as my possible type for a long time, although I am pretty sure now I'm a 6. Being phobic 6 and sp-first probably makes for some fairly significant differences in that regard. I'm more the mild-looking, cautiously friendly, secretly worried about abandonment type. So I don't have a lot of issues with, say, flipping suddenly from being ok to being really angry, or really upset, or whatever. It would have to be something big to trigger that - although I admit I get angry a lot quicker than I used to, but I think that's partly living in a big, aggressive city with many sources of stress.

There have actually been many times when I really felt very anxious and stressed, but if I said as much to someone, they would say "wow...but you look really calm and in control". I do think that's partly how I cope. I avoid getting visibly stressed (although it can happen, don't get me wrong) partly because I know it will stress me out even more, and stress people out around me, and that's just more...stress. I'm really very chill about a lot of things (easy-going gets applied to me a lot) and I think it's partly because I don't want to complicate my life more than necessary. Personally, if I get upset about loads of things, that's just...upsetting. I know how destabilizing it can be when I'm in emotional turmoil. In fact, it can be agonizingly painful and destructive to me, emotionally, mentally, physically. So one way to avoid that is just not getting too stressed about things if I don't feel I have to!

But all that said, I do tend to catastrophize a bit. ("oh noooo, if I decide to move/change jobs/etc etc it will be so stressful and so complex and maybe I just won't cope!!") Sense-checking how I feel with other people can be helpful, especially if they can both soothe me a bit, and offer some practical advice (especially if it actually seems applicable to my situation.)

In general I think being around reliable people helps. (One reason why I tend to get along well with IxxJ, and SJ types. It's great to have people who are reliable and practical in your life.) It's weird though that even with faithful friends, if I fear I have hurt their feelings, or if they seem a bit cold or something, I worry about them leaving me. I think it's one of those areas where just checking how you feel, against reality, is good. Which is kind of a cognitive behavioural therapy thing. Like, you look at "what are the catastrophic thoughts I'm having, which are triggering unpleasant and frightening emotions? Now, can I replace those with thoughts that actually reflect reality?" It can be hard to train your mind that way, but I think even if you can do it a bit, it helps. Again, though, not really sure if this applies to the kind of thing you find yourself dealing with, but there might be something there.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Personally, I don't think this is a type related thing. Any type can have borderline personality disorder. It is a behavioral problem, not a chemical imbalance. The fact that you are even questioning something may be wrong with YOU is not indicative of BPD. BPD people, (my father was diagnosed BPD and I work closely with a diagnosed BPD woman) generally lack introspection. The "why do I act this way" is not asked.

Instead, they are very quick to escape those answers by deflecting their own weakness onto others or objects. Thus, the attitude of helplessness against the world is predominant because it is through the actions of others that hinder the BPD individual from success or follow through. You can spot BPD individuals because they are usually chronic liars in the sense of exaggeration of claims, and excuses for inaction. I would be surprised to hear someone with BPD apologize then MODIFY behavior. They almost never do because they don't view themselves in control of their actions. Extremely defensive and manipulative. They become offensive and lash out at what they "see" as personal attacks upon them and this gives them more ammo for their rationale of helplessness and the perpetual victim of the world.

They are smart and adept at manipulation. They will play upon your sympathies easily to excuse their behavior. Basically, they are very exhaustive individuals to deal with.

 

[Thalassa]

Sorry guys, I think I didn't get my point across well here. I'm not self-diagnosing with BPD - on the contrary, I'm quite aware that I do not fit the criteria. I'm going more along the lines of what [MENTION=12991]Huxley3112[/MENTION] said about looking into it for self-understanding.

Ok cool.

I'm 100% sure I don't fit borderline criteria, but I found the overlaps between it and being a sexual 6 interesting and thought that perhaps knowledge about BPD would be useful to growing my own self, since I struggle with many of the tendencies. I was curious if anyone else out there had wandered across similar thoughts or experiences.

I'm quite positive that many sexual 6s may have questioned this, simply because of our intensity and reactivity (especially if counterphobic) and because the sexual 6 may be more likely to have an intimate partner as the chosen "group" then losing (or fear of losing) that intimate partner might invoke feelings of 6-ish anxiety and insecurity.

So, yes, totally. I even researched it for myself once, and realized later that it's what my ESFJ ex has. He's really borderline, and it's a pattern of instability that is almost absurd. He makes *me* look stable, reasonable, forgiving, and in control.

Anyway, as for my own diagnoses, when I was younger, I was diagnosed as Histrionic. However, it was one therapist, it was dropped from my diagnosis chart by other therapists without them ever saying a word to me, and Histrionic is actually being taken out of the new DSM.

Histrionic and Borderline have some overlapping features, due to being the Cluster B dramatic/relationship-oriented personality disorders.

At any rate, I have a mood disorder, and have no diagnosis for any personality disorder on record currently.

 

[Thalassa]

Personally, I don't think this is a type related thing. Any type can have borderline personality disorder. It is a behavioral problem, not a chemical imbalance. The fact that you are even questioning something may be wrong with YOU is not indicative of BPD. BPD people, (my father was diagnosed BPD and I work closely with a diagnosed BPD woman) generally lack introspection. The "why do I act this way" is not asked.

Instead, they are very quick to escape those answers by deflecting their own weakness onto others or objects. Thus, the attitude of helplessness against the world is predominant because it is through the actions of others that hinder the BPD individual from success or follow through. You can spot BPD individuals because they are usually chronic liars in the sense of exaggeration of claims, and excuses for inaction. I would be surprised to hear someone with BPD apologize then MODIFY behavior. They almost never do because they don't view themselves in control of their actions. Extremely defensive and manipulative. They become offensive and lash out at what they "see" as personal attacks upon them and this gives them more ammo for their rationale of helplessness and the perpetual victim of the world.

They are smart and adept at manipulation. They will play upon your sympathies easily to excuse their behavior. Basically, they are very exhaustive individuals to deal with.

Exhaustive, yes. Inactive, yes. That's why they're so hard to treat - they don't want to accept anything is wrong, and even if they temporarily do, they'd rather escape than put any effort into self-improvement.

My ex had an ultimatum from me that if he would simply get help, I would come back to him. Instead, he whined, cried, and pleaded "when are you coming home."

I'm like, what don't you get? I'm effing serious, bro.

 

[brainheart]

When i'm unhealthy, [MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION], I too possess borderline traits (although i'm not borderline). Naranjo aligns some borderline traits with type four, especially sexual four, but he says that it's more of a masochistic character vs borderline, they just share certain traits: variability of mood, self condemnation, impulsivity, rage, excessive dependency and tempestuous transference.

He doesn't mention borderline in regard to six, but I can see those tendencies in certain sexual sixes, for sure. I've seen princess Diana in both sexual six and borderline literature, for example.