[Other/Multiple Enneatypes] Lelouch vi Britannia: 1 or 8?

[Elfboy]

he seems like the perfect 1/8 hybrid. which do you think he is closer to?

 

[Savage Idealist]

I'm . . . not sure at all. I need to ponder on this

 

[Elfboy]

I think he's 8w7. he enjoys the thrill of commanding, conquering and crushing his enemies too much to be a 1

 

[Savage Idealist]

I think he's 8w7. he enjoys the thrill of commanding, conquering and crushing his enemies too much to be a 1

That may certainly be possible; his desire for revenge against Britannia seems to be far too personal to be the desire of a 1.

 

[Riva]

Lolz I was going to ask you whether you have watched the series to help me type him @Elfboy. Glad you have.

I haven't watched the entire series yet (currently in the first season). Started watching it because @Ginkgo recommended it and is loving it. Thanks!

I believe INTJ is easy for him.

Enneagram type is the issue. I think when typing him we should consider the first episode the most because in the first episode he was only a student without much in his head. His personality changed considerably - or should I say was compelled to - with his new found abilities. In the first episode he had an extremely relaxed carefree vibe of a E7. However he probably isn't an e7 and could be an E7 integrated into an E7. But then I read the below quote:

That may certainly be possible; his desire for revenge against Britannia seems to be far too personal to be the desire of a 1.

Really? Are e1s too detached to be personal?

Anyway about the suggestion of him being an E8 I disagree. How can I explain this? E8s have a natural need to control the environment but Lelouch doesn't. Infact he doesn't care at all about his environment and what people do and how they do it. He is anti e8 if anything. He only becomes controlling when he wears the mask of Zero.

Another thing you have to consider about him is that he is a NTJ. All NTJs have one common trait; which is decisiveness. This decisiveness has the tendency to rally people around a flag. Not so much is a Joan of Arc way but in a this is what we know therefore this is what we should do without wasting too much time way; which tends win the trust of people who in return are compelled to follow the NTJ. And that trait of decisiveness has the tendency to come across as E8.

Going back to his E1 possibility; I could see a lot of similarities between him and Kira from the death note. However Kira was such an obvious E1 it dwarfs the possibility of Lelouch being an E1. The only excuse I have for this is that Lelouch is highly integrated into an E7 (atleat in the first episode).

Hmm... how about 5w4? Could you explain to why you haven't even considered it?

Also what type could Suzaku Kururugi be? He is painfully idealistic. Please note that I haven't watched the whole series; so don't make any spoilers. He is clearly introverted too therefore I could see him as an INF or maybe even an ISFJ. However I don't see much Fe in him all so I am confused. And I have no clue as to what to his E type is. Okay a few guesses: 1, 2w1, e4 (though e4 doesn't make much sense my lack of enneagram knowledge gives me the excuse to make baseless guesses and use that as an excuse at the same time).

This happens to be my 5,000th post.

 

[Ginkgo]

[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION] I agree that he's 7w8. I think his desire to command is more about having fun and generating plans than it is reflexive and on principle. If he was an 8, he would likely be more gruff than regal.

When I think of 1s, I think of people who reflexively critique the things and people they care about. But Lelouch seems more willing to simply dispose of undesirables as a 7 would.

I'm not sure if I would agree that he's INTJ. He could simply be a reserved extravert.

Also: My pleasure.

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION] I agree that he's 7w8. I think his desire to command is more about having fun and generating plans than it is reflexive and on principle. If he was an 8, he would likely be more gruff than regal.
When I think of 1s, I think of people who reflexively critique the things and people they care about. But Lelouch seems more willing to simply dispose of undesirables as a 7 would.
I'm not sure if I would agree that he's INTJ. He could simply be a reserved extravert.
Also: My pleasure.

he's not Fi inferior, but I am starting to see 7 as a possibility. too Id to be a 1, not gut center enough to be core 8. he's also too self righteous to be an 8. 7's line to 1 can give them a sort of theatrical self righteousness that can be mistaken for a genuine superego type).

at the moment I see INTJ 7w?>8w7>4w3 Sx/Sp
[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION]
I see Suzaku as ISFJ 2w1>6w5>1w2 So/Sx

 

[Riva]

Thanks for the quick replies and the enneagram infor. I'm beginning to like enneagrams mainly because it sharpens my skills of MBTI typing.

[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION] I agree that he's 7w8. I think his desire to command is more about having fun and generating plans than it is reflexive and on principle. If he was an 8, he would likely be more gruff than regal.

When I think of 1s, I think of people who reflexively critique the things and people they care about. But Lelouch seems more willing to simply dispose of undesirables as a 7 would.

I'm not sure if I would agree that he's INTJ. He could simply be a reserved extravert.

Also: My pleasure.

So I was correct; e8 is not correct.

Yes I've noticed what you have mentioned in e1s. He doesn't seem to care about those either. However we sadly didn't get much to see him especially with his friends to notice whether he does have those traits. So maybe he does and we never got to see them.

7w8 makes sense too. However I didn't want to type him as one because well there ain't that many intj e7s to refer to and it is usually believed that there aren't people with that combination.

Regarding his mbti type; his Fi is definitely tertiary. It is influential in his dealing with his loved ones but it doesn't prevent him from his final decisions to make it primary and he is simply not an efp to make it secondary. And I think he is classic introvert. Also what elf has said below:

he's not Fi inferior, but I am starting to see 7 as a possibility. too Id to be a 1, not gut center enough to be core 8. he's also too self righteous to be an 8. 7's line to 1 can give them a sort of theatrical self righteousness that can be mistaken for a genuine superego type).

at the moment I see INTJ 7w?>8w7>4w3 Sx/Sp

[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION]
I see Suzaku as ISFJ 2w1>6w5>1w2 So/Sx

So e7 is possible. Should we jump in joy for finally seeing an intj e7?

What do you mean by too ID? I didn't know that e8s weren't self righteous; atleast less than e7s and I definitely didn't know e7s are considered to be self righteous. Ah the 7s line to e7 makes sense.

So I was right about Suzaku; atleast in the tritype sense. Why why why didn't I see e6 in him before you pointed it out? Sigh!

Thanks again people.

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION]
I could actually see Suzaku as core 6, but I can't see any connection to either 5 or 7 in him, so I opted for core 2 instead.

7's aren't always self righteous (I doubt [MENTION=5418]Lady X[/MENTION] or [MENTION=857]FDG[/MENTION] are very self righteous) but in some 7s, their sense of grandiosity, feelings of entitlement and line to 1 can lend themselves to this sort of behavior, particularly if it's a very idealistic 7 on a mission (which isn't uncommon. 7s are often pretty idealistic, especially the FPs).

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION]
also, Kira was not an obvious 1, he was a 3w4 who was a 1 wannabe

 

[Riva]

[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION]
also, Kira was not an obvious 1, he was a 3w4 who was a 1 wannabe

The issue is I don't think I have met that many 3w4s. Therefore I haven't observed them much. However when I saw Claire Underwood from the House of Cards though I have never met/seen an obvious 3w4 before I knew she was one.

Assuming she is indeed a 3w4, Kira I probably isn't one though he probably has it in his tritype. Lets take the core definition of both the two types:

E1

Ones are conscientious and ethical, with a strong sense of right and wrong. They are teachers, crusaders, and advocates for change: always striving to improve things, but afraid of making a mistake. Well-organized, orderly, and fastidious, they try to maintain high standards, but can slip into being critical and perfectionistic. They typically have problems with resentment and impatience. At their Best: wise, discerning, realistic, and noble. Can be morally heroic.

E3

Threes are self-assured, attractive, and charming. Ambitious, competent, and energetic, they can also be status-conscious and highly driven for advancement. They are diplomatic and poised, but can also be overly concerned with their image and what others think of them. They typically have problems with workaholism and competitiveness. At their Best: self-accepting, authentic, everything they seem to be—role models who inspire others.

I think Kira has more common with e1 than e3 for sure and there is one thing I hope you've noticed in Kira to prove a point of mine which is Kira isn't overly concerned about their image though he does have a perfectionist drive in him which makes him somewhat image conscious.

The difference in the e3 image consciousness and the e1 image consciousness is that the e3s are driven by their need to create a certain image; whereas the e1s are internally driven to maintain integrity which might make them concerned about maintaining this image.

And I believe Kira is the latter.

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION]
I think Kira is more the latter (3) than the former (1). Kira is charming, conceited, exceedingly confident and narcissistic. he tells himself that he is doing it all for the sake of justice, but he really just wants the challenge (because he is a clear overachiever, which is evident even before he gets the death note), to be god of a new world and to destroy his nemesis (L). think of how comfortable he is with deceit, the way he easily seduces both Misa and Kiyomi and how different his image is between when he's putting on a show for people and when he's alone with Ryuk.

also, he is clearly Id as opposed to superego. he pretends to be superego and upstanding, but, when the cost is clear, his true narcissistic, sadistic tendencies shine through immediately. (the clip starts around 4:00)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sOa0EF4XBk[/youtube]

 

[Riva]

[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION]
I think Kira is more the latter (3) than the former (1). Kira is charming, conceited, exceedingly confident and narcissistic. he tells himself that he is doing it all for the sake of justice, but he really just wants the challenge (because he is a clear overachiever, which is evident even before he gets the death note), to be god of a new world and to destroy his nemesis (L). think of how comfortable he is with deceit, the way he easily seduces both Misa and Kiyomi and how different his image is between when he's putting on a show for people and when he's alone with Ryuk.

You do have a point there. A very good one that is actually beginning to convince me. However although I can't remember much of the story (the plots and the sub plots) anymore I always remembered him as a person who fooled himself that he was doing it for the greater goods.

Infact he/the writers developed the character so well and took their time to change him that the viewers were unable to understand whether he is committing these crimes (killing innocent people) for the greater good (or atleast whether he was believing them to be) or whether he was an egoistical sociopath. The line was crossed when he killed those FBI agents and when he killed that FBI agent's wife; which I believe came a bit too soon.

A question I have is: aren't e1s able to fool themselves that what they are doing is for the greater good?

I think that is very possibly and there is a member in this site who is an e1 who has completely fooled himself into believing that his bigotries are righteous than facing the reality of being fooled/influenced by his stupid/outdated religious beliefs.

also, he is clearly Id as opposed to superego. he pretends to be superego and upstanding, but, when the cost is clear, his true narcissistic, sadistic tendencies shine through immediately. (the clip starts around 4:00)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sOa0EF4XBk[/youtube]

How did I forget that part? That revealed his character in a shockingly disgusting way and was a brilliant clip to prove your point about Kira being an e3. Still it would help if you could address the question above.

You have to provide me a link of what this ID superego theories are.

Thanks.

 

[Ginkgo]

Yeah [MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION], E7 is one of the most extraverted types. I mean, I won't deny that some uncommon permutations exist, but I could more easily see an INFJ being an E7 or even an INTP being E7 than an INTJ. I think this is also why many people think of Lelouch as an ENTP who tends to stay the course more, giving him an ENTJ-ish edge.

I think the fact that he uses Zero as an alter ego molds his overall personality into something more complex and irregular. By dawning the mask, he removes his typical persona and lets thoughts closer to his subconscious guide his actions. In a way, Breaking Bad's Heisenberg acts similarly. So, [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION], given the fact that he juggles these aspects of his personality, why wouldn't we see inferior Fi surface to the degree that tertiary Fi surfaces? A lot of his loyalty, devotion, and sense of values were given a decent platform once he established his alter-ego in a seat of power.

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION]

A question I have is: aren't e1s able to fool themselves that what they are doing is for the greater good?

perhaps for a short while, but not forever. 3s on the other hand can fool themselves much longer.

The line was crossed when he killed those FBI agents and when he killed that FBI agent's wife; which I believe came a bit too soon.

and this is another reason why I don't see core 1. this happened early in the story and he didn't give a shit. in fact, I don't think he shows a shred of genuine guilt throughout the entire series. he plays the innocent one and is a master puppeteer and actor, but, deep down, he is a narcissistic bastard who cares far more about himself and his own glory than any sort of public good.
[MENTION=8031]Ginkgo[/MENTION]
because his values were genuine, not a product of his alter ego. ENTJs do not have that level of Fi at a young age. in my opinion, Zero was a natural part of Lelouch's personality. just look at the similarities between his childhood self and Zero. Lelouch as a child (closer to this natural self) was not the quiet, modest person that Lelouch pretends to be in his school life. Zero is, imo, much closer to Lelouch's personality than the image he puts on at school to get people to underestimate him.

 

[Riva]

I finished watching the series. I loved the series but only liked the ending; mainly because the last few episodes (ones after his identity was uncovered) made him do many unwanted and uncharacteristic things. The ending however justified it all; although his actions I believe were unnecessary. Infact most of his elaborate plots and destructions were unnecessary, including his destruction. He could have simply pulled some stunts as zero, get famous as someone who fights for justice and use his geass to take revenge and get the throne, then do what he did. It's as if he wanted to do things the hard way, with a maximum amount of deaths on both sides. If what I say doesn't make any sense to the plot due to his characer, his reaction to shirley's father's death should prove my point. Kira would have been smarter about it. [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] [MENTION=8031]Ginkgo[/MENTION] What types do you think todo, prince snichel, c.c and that brittanian reporter are? Todo - istx (istj>istp)Prince snichel - too unrealistic? Doesn't seem like a fi type. I can actually seefj and 3 or 4. C.c - ixfp and probably infp (definitely an ip and she doesn't seem like a Ti dom). I'm trying to type c.c at present.

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION]
Todo: IST? 8w9>6w5>3w2 Sp/So
Scheizel: INTJ 5w6>1w9>3w2 So/Sp
CC: INFJ 2w3>7w8>9w8 Sx/Sp who tries to look ISTP 5

 

[Riva]

[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION]Todo: IST? 8w9>6w5>3w2 Sp/SoScheizel: INTJ 5w6>1w9>3w2 So/SpCC: INFJ 2w3>7w8>9w8 Sx/Sp who tries to look ISTP 5

Todo 8w9? Maybe so. He is nothing like tywin lannister who is extremely intimidating. Todo on the other hand doesn't isn't and doesn't seem to care much about controlling the environment. I think the easiest choice for scheizel is intj. But he doesn't seem to have that tert ti at all. Fi is quite evident in intjs. Infact his kick-ass sister who is most probably an etj indicates more fi than he does. Hmm.. He does give a bit of a hannibal vibe (the tv series) who is an intj 5w6 I believe; and coincidentally seem to avoid fi intentionally. So could this be a 5w6 trait? So far enfj or ifj e3 makes more sense.I was knocked out by c.c's typing. I am/was ignoring her past self. And 2?

 

[Elfboy]

Todo 8w9? Maybe so. He is nothing like tywin lannister who is extremely intimidating. Todo on the other hand doesn't isn't and doesn't seem to care much about controlling the environment.

looking back, I could see 9w8 or 1w9 for him.

I think the easiest choice for scheizel is intj. But he doesn't seem to have that tert ti at all. Fi is quite evident in intjs. Infact his kick-ass sister who is most probably an etj indicates more fi than he does. Hmm.. He does give a bit of a hannibal vibe (the tv series) who is an intj 5w6 I believe; and coincidentally seem to avoid fi intentionally. So could this be a 5w6 trait? So far enfj or ifj e3 makes more sense.

come to think of it, he does seem to very Ti/Fe. INFJ could work.
and yeah, Cornelia is ENTJ 8w7>3w4>6w5 Sp/Sx or Sx/Sp I believe.

I was knocked out by c.c's typing. I am/was ignoring her past self. And 2?

her greatest desire as a child was to have people love her. she is coy, seductive and covertly power seeking and uses these traits to manipulate people to do her bidding (such as Mao). that and I can't see core 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9.

 

[Riva]

looking back, I could see 9w8 or 1w9 for him. come to think of it, he does seem to very Ti/Fe. INFJ could work. and yeah, Cornelia is ENTJ 8w7>3w4>6w5 Sp/Sx or Sx/Sp I believe.her greatest desire as a child was to have people love her. she is coy, seductive and covertly power seeking and uses these traits to manipulate people to do her bidding (such as Mao). that and I can't see core 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9.

It has been a long time since I have gotten into/witnessed a type argument without tension. Yes Todo has 1 or 9 written on him. 9w8s however have explosive moments amidst tension. He seems uniformly reserved unless he believes something unethical is witnessed. However he doesn't seem like a polite 9w1 so I would go with 1w9. Cornelia I thought was a female tywin lannister which is entj 8w9. 8w7 have an impulsive childlike touch to themselves which cornelia lacked. I wasn't very sure whether she was si or ni because 8 (esp w9's) have a keeping with traditions, social-dwarfism vibe to them which is could be confused with si. However neither her nor tywin lannister has even a hint of ne and ne is quite evident in estjs (more so than in esfjs) when in a jovial mood. Regarding her geass: lot of people would want to be loved. Infact I would choose her geass over being the richest man in the world. However there is something in me that is stubborn and would wish for power instead of love/being adored. Anyway I wanted her typed after she became c.c. Or her at present. Am I wrong to say her lack of need for any social belonging, group well being, acceptance etc as a lack of fe? Also she has an occasional Te touch to her which we could attribute to inferior te in her doing the needful without the process being questioned. I would say she is ifp because of those. Infact if a comparison is made between kallen whom I believe is a stp you'd see that cc isn't muche fe or ti ish. Typing some other characters if you are interested: kellen - stp 6?, Milly on whom adore - estp 7w? (don't tell me you think she is a fe dom because that would disappoint me regarding your typing), rolo - man he is scary, rakshata chawla - tp? not entp I believe; esp when compared to the earl of pudding, and diethard reid whom I don't know where to begin with (might be a e3 or a tritype 3). [MENTION=8031]Ginkgo[/MENTION], [MENTION=4461]01011010[/MENTION] care to help me?