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  1. #1
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Default My life as a social five

    I'm a 5w6, which is apparently less common than 5w4, and a social variant, which seem to be in the greatest minority among fives (yes go me, so special), so I thought I'd post a few thoughts for those who are interested.

    - 5w4 vs. 5w6: in my experience, despite being more visibly iconoclastic, 5w4s tend to be much better with people and in managing personal relationships. They're less able to be "personable" in a traditional way, but this makes them approachable and likable. Meanwhile, because of my six wing, I'm able to be "personable" in a more traditional way, so that all my life people have been saying (with a tone of accusation), "You can be so personable when you want to be!" The irony of it is that they assume that because I can be more traditionally personable, my withdrawing tendencies are arrogance/misanthropy/etc., which pushes people further away. It's frustrating.

    - Work ethic: true to 5w6 descriptions, I have a darn good one. I just have virtually no social energy, so again people see how much external energy I have for work and how I dislike interaction and assume I'm arrogant/a misanthrope/etc.

    - Desire for recognition: I briefly considered the possibility that I may be a particularly withdrawn three, but ultimately I hope to be recognized for my intellectual contributions and I'm working hard to set my life on that path right now. Like a proper five, I initially studied something that interested me deeply but, if pursued as a career, requires more social energy than I have to give, so:

    - I'm working toward getting back into academia and staying there. I actually managed to land a pretty good, well-paying job that allows one to climb the ladder through hard work, but the nature of the work is pretty unsatisfying and I'm surrounded by SJ 6s and 1s, with whom I have nothing to talk about. (So that they consider me arrogant/misanthropic/etc. Sigh.) Academia isn't perfect, but it's pretty much the best place to apply my strengths without being hammered on my weaknesses and finally being able to be around people who share my outlook and with whom I can have engaging conversation.

    Anyway, feel free to ask questions!
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  2. #2
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I'm a 5w6, which is apparently less common than 5w4, and a social variant, which seem to be in the greatest minority among fives (yes go me, so special), so I thought I'd post a few thoughts for those who are interested.

    - 5w4 vs. 5w6: in my experience, despite being more visibly iconoclastic, 5w4s tend to be much better with people and in managing personal relationships. They're less able to be "personable" in a traditional way, but this makes them approachable and likable. Meanwhile, because of my six wing, I'm able to be "personable" in a more traditional way, so that all my life people have been saying (with a tone of accusation), "You can be so personable when you want to be!" The irony of it is that they assume that because I can be more traditionally personable, my withdrawing tendencies are arrogance/misanthropy/etc., which pushes people further away. It's frustrating.

    - Work ethic: true to 5w6 descriptions, I have a darn good one. I just have virtually no social energy, so again people see how much external energy I have for work and how I dislike interaction and assume I'm arrogant/a misanthrope/etc.

    - Desire for recognition: I briefly considered the possibility that I may be a particularly withdrawn three, but ultimately I hope to be recognized for my intellectual contributions and I'm working hard to set my life on that path right now. Like a proper five, I initially studied something that interested me deeply but, if pursued as a career, requires more social energy than I have to give, so:

    - I'm working toward getting back into academia and staying there. I actually managed to land a pretty good, well-paying job that allows one to climb the ladder through hard work, but the nature of the work is pretty unsatisfying and I'm surrounded by SJ 6s and 1s, with whom I have nothing to talk about. (So that they consider me arrogant/misanthropic/etc. Sigh.) Academia isn't perfect, but it's pretty much the best place to apply my strengths without being hammered on my weaknesses and finally being able to be around people who share my outlook and with whom I can have engaging conversation.

    Anyway, feel free to ask questions!
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  3. #3
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    What confuses you about those statements? (Not being sarcastic.)
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  4. #4
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    The two bold are contradictory.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  5. #5
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    How so? The way we see the world and consequently approach life is vastly different. The result is that our interests and viewpoints are vastly different, which precludes engaging conversation.

    Edit: I'll point out that the feeling is obviously mutual and I'm not interested in seeing this thread devolve into a type hate-a-thon. In a perfect world, yes, we would all meet in the middle and expand our horizons, but that's not the way it works out. We learn to engage in small talk so as not to be obtusely off-putting to others, but in the end our interests are our interests and we enjoy talking most with people who share them.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  6. #6
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    How so? The way we see the world and consequently approach life is vastly different. The result is that our interests and viewpoints are vastly different, which precludes engaging conversation.

    Edit: I'll point out that the feeling is obviously mutual and I'm not interested in seeing this thread devolve into a type hate-a-thon. In a perfect world, yes, we would all meet in the middle and expand our horizons, but that's not the way it works out. We learn to engage in small talk so as not to be obtusely off-putting to others, but in the end our interests are our interests and we enjoy talking most with people who share them.
    In the bold, are you not stating two opposing descriptions about the people with whom you work with? I see no room for doubt about the contradiction.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    In the bold, are you not stating two opposing descriptions about the people with whom you work with? I see no room for doubt about the contradiction.
    He is talking about two different workplaces.

  8. #8
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    We have a lot in common. Specially:
    - Desire for recognition: I briefly considered the possibility that I may be a particularly withdrawn three, but ultimately I hope to be recognized for my intellectual contributions and I'm working hard to set my life on that path right now. Like a proper five, I initially studied something that interested me deeply but, if pursued as a career, requires more social energy than I have to give, so:
    and I'm surrounded by SJ 6s and 1s
    Questions:
    1- You don't look like a social at all. What makes you think your are a so? Check the bolded.
    Social (aka "Adaptive") Instinct
    Just as many people tend to misidentify themselves as Sexual types because they want one-on-one relationships, many people fail to recognize themselves as Social types because they get the (false) idea that this means always being involved in groups, meetings, and parties. If Self-Preservation types are interested in adjusting the environment to make themselves more secure and comfortable, Social types adapt themselves to serve the needs of the social situation they find themselves in. Thus, Social types are highly aware of other people, whether they are in intimate situations or in groups. They are also aware of how their actions and attitudes are affecting those around them. Moreover, Sexual types seek intimacy, Social types seek personal connection: they want to stay in long-term contact with people and to be involved in their world. Social types are the most concerned with doing things that will have some impact on their community, or even broader domains. They tend to be warmer, more open, engaging, and socially responsible than the other two types. In their primary relationships, they seek partners with whom they can share social activities, wanting their intimates to get involved in projects and events with them. Paradoxically, they actually tend to avoid long periods of exclusive intimacy and quiet solitude, seeing both as potentially limiting. Social types lose their sense of identity and meaning when they are not involved with others in activities that transcend their individual interests.
    2-Do you know your Tri Type? I've always identified more with En 3 than 6, so Tri Types make more sense for me than wings do.

    3-What's your field?

    Btw I'd guess 5w4s are rarer than 5w6s irl (but probably more abundant on forums). 6 is the most common enneagram, while 4 is maybe the least...I guess the wings follow a similar pattern, but my logic may be bad.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  9. #9
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Rasofy, good question, and as you bolded in your quote, the point is that social types are aware of whether or not they fit in. It's not a matter of being willing to adapt oneself to circumstances at all costs, even if it means suppressing one's actual interests in order to adapt to the group. (This is more how the social instinct would present itself in threes or sixes, if we go according to theory.)

    In my case, I'm quite aware of my social standing and whether or not I fit in. As a five, the social instinct manifests itself as an intense interest in the world around me and how it works, and I find that I want to be "connected" by applying my strengths in order to add to mankind's knowledge and understanding.

    On a more practical note, I have a friend who is a self-preserving five, and another who is, I believe, also a social five (she's a scientist), and the focuses of our mental energies are just very different. The sp-five is very focused on his hobbies and interests and invests himself in work to afford the creature comforts he enjoys that allow him to pursue these hobbies. Meanwhile, myself and the other social five I know are more interested in contributing to wealth of knowledge and, yes, establishing ourselves as important members of what we consider communities of importance.

    In fact, my main frustration with my current work is that although I feel I can do it competently, my strengths are better suited to academia. I.e., I could be of more service to society in academia.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  10. #10
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    @Mycroft That was a very interesting perspective, thanks for sharing.
    I'm similar to your sp-five friend on my motivations. Even though I have side interests that could end up helping people, it is never the focus.
    Also I don't see in terms of ''community''. I mean, we are all homo sapiens.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

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