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  1. #11
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    In the bold, are you not stating two opposing descriptions about the people with whom you work with? I see no room for doubt about the contradiction.
    Oh, I understand now. I see how my wording may have been misleading. Yes, as Nicodemus says, I'm talking about two different workplaces: my present workplace, and my hypothetical workplace once establishing myself as an academic down the road. (Right now I'm saving up while going through the steps necessarily to get enrolled in higher education again.)

    Rasofy: I hope I don't make it sound as though I consider one superior to the other; for example, I'm pretty sure Einstein was an sp-dominant five. It just happened that his interest was physics. In a way, I can see how this is a more "pure" approach: doing it because it's your interest, with no eye to how it will be received. I think sp-dominant fives would probably make better researchers, while the social dominants are, like often described, better professors. (I'm painting in broad strokes, of course.)
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  2. #12

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    I too, am a social (so/sp) 5. I am not sure what wing. But in my younger days, I would have easily said 5w4. I had similar feelings of disliking my workplace and thinking that I would be better able to serve society at large doing research in an academic (or non-commercial research) setting than doing development work in a corporate environment. So now I have returned to school (after 11 years in industry, but I guess my emotional learning curve is slow).

    I have considered becoming a professor. I like tutoring, but teaching is a whole other thing. I can imagine lecturing (as long as I had a microphone, and did not need to yell to have everyone hear me) and writing books to educate people. But the whole evaluating people's performance and assigning grades part does not appeal to me.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  3. #13
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I'm a 5w6, which is apparently less common than 5w4, and a social variant, which seem to be in the greatest minority among fives (yes go me, so special), so I thought I'd post a few thoughts for those who are interested.

    - 5w4 vs. 5w6: in my experience, despite being more visibly iconoclastic, 5w4s tend to be much better with people and in managing personal relationships. They're less able to be "personable" in a traditional way, but this makes them approachable and likable. Meanwhile, because of my six wing, I'm able to be "personable" in a more traditional way, so that all my life people have been saying (with a tone of accusation), "You can be so personable when you want to be!" The irony of it is that they assume that because I can be more traditionally personable, my withdrawing tendencies are arrogance/misanthropy/etc., which pushes people further away. It's frustrating.

    - Work ethic: true to 5w6 descriptions, I have a darn good one. I just have virtually no social energy, so again people see how much external energy I have for work and how I dislike interaction and assume I'm arrogant/a misanthrope/etc.

    - Desire for recognition: I briefly considered the possibility that I may be a particularly withdrawn three, but ultimately I hope to be recognized for my intellectual contributions and I'm working hard to set my life on that path right now. Like a proper five, I initially studied something that interested me deeply but, if pursued as a career, requires more social energy than I have to give, so:

    - I'm working toward getting back into academia and staying there. I actually managed to land a pretty good, well-paying job that allows one to climb the ladder through hard work, but the nature of the work is pretty unsatisfying and I'm surrounded by SJ 6s and 1s, with whom I have nothing to talk about. (So that they consider me arrogant/misanthropic/etc. Sigh.) Academia isn't perfect, but it's pretty much the best place to apply my strengths without being hammered on my weaknesses and finally being able to be around people who share my outlook and with whom I can have engaging conversation.

    Anyway, feel free to ask questions!

    Except for the last paragraph about academia, I could have written all of this. Based on your description, I'm definitely more 5w6 than 5w4.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post

    On a more practical note, I have a friend who is a self-preserving five, and another who is, I believe, also a social five (she's a scientist), and the focuses of our mental energies are just very different. The sp-five is very focused on his hobbies and interests and invests himself in work to afford the creature comforts he enjoys that allow him to pursue these hobbies. Meanwhile, myself and the other social five I know are more interested in contributing to wealth of knowledge and, yes, establishing ourselves as important members of what we consider communities of importance.

    In fact, my main frustration with my current work is that although I feel I can do it competently, my strengths are better suited to academia. I.e., I could be of more service to society in academia.
    I'm still not completely sure on my variant. Probably sp/so or so/sp but not sure which. It's very important to me to be able to spend time on my own individual hobbies and enjoy my creature comforts but I want just as much to feel like I'm contributing something to the society at large.
    INtp
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  4. #14
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Rasofy: I hope I don't make it sound as though I consider one superior to the other; for example, I'm pretty sure Einstein was an sp-dominant five. It just happened that his interest was physics. In a way, I can see how this is a more "pure" approach: doing it because it's your interest, with no eye to how it will be received.
    Oh, not at all. While I agree that most sp's aren't community focused, it doesn't mean we don't treat individuals fairly.
    I think sp-dominant fives would probably make better researchers, while the social dominants are, like often described, better professors. (I'm painting in broad strokes, of course.)
    Makes sense.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  5. #15
    Senior Member Owfin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I'm surrounded by SJ 6s and 1s, with whom I have nothing to talk about.
    This is a false statement. This disagreement has therefore given us something to talk about.

    On the other side of the coin, if you had said that you had stuff to talk about with SJ 6s, I would not have something to talk about with you.

    So the statement was only true as long as it did not exist.

    I don't see any invisible treasure chests.

    • MBTI? ISTJ
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  6. #16
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I'm a 5w6, which is apparently less common than 5w4, and a social variant, which seem to be in the greatest minority among fives (yes go me, so special), so I thought I'd post a few thoughts for those who are interested.

    I'm able to be "personable" in a more traditional way, so that all my life people have been saying (with a tone of accusation), "You can be so personable when you want to be!" The irony of it is that they assume that because I can be more traditionally personable, my withdrawing tendencies are arrogance/misanthropy/etc., which pushes people further away. It's frustrating.
    I used to get this all the time as a child; fortunately not so much as an adult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    In my case, I'm quite aware of my social standing and whether or not I fit in. As a five, the social instinct manifests itself as an intense interest in the world around me and how it works, and I find that I want to be "connected" by applying my strengths in order to add to mankind's knowledge and understanding.

    On a more practical note, I have a friend who is a self-preserving five, and another who is, I believe, also a social five (she's a scientist), and the focuses of our mental energies are just very different. The sp-five is very focused on his hobbies and interests and invests himself in work to afford the creature comforts he enjoys that allow him to pursue these hobbies. Meanwhile, myself and the other social five I know are more interested in contributing to wealth of knowledge and, yes, establishing ourselves as important members of what we consider communities of importance.

    In fact, my main frustration with my current work is that although I feel I can do it competently, my strengths are better suited to academia. I.e., I could be of more service to society in academia.
    I"m a 5w6 as well, though sp. Sometimes I get a sense of my social standing, but much of the time I'm probably oblivious, and it doesn't matter much to me. I want to understand how the world works, but mainly so I can be more effective at reaching my goals. My motivations seem to fall between the self-interest of your sp friend and the so desire to benefit society. Yes, I would not be happy doing something that does not interest me, and I am glad when I can be of service, but mostly I am motivated by accomplishment - the ability to get things done. I do not care if I get credit or praise for it. It is enough to see it done, to see my vision become reality. I seek respect, recognition, credentials mainly to aid me in reaching these goals. Not sure where that falls in the instinct subtypes.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #17
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    There are a few types that we rarely get to see from a personal, "horse's mouth" perspective. So, thanks for that!

    Academia's a pretty neat place to be, especially if you value autonomy, flexibility, and making an impact through research. It's possible to "make it" in academia by providing expertise in some existing field of interest or by pioneering new fields (sometimes as an interdisciplinary combination of existing fields). It's also possible to get yourself into highly collaborative environments where you work with "like-valued" people (with whom you can have very interesting discussions!), if you so choose. Best of luck!

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