User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: 5w4

  1. #1
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default 5w4

    Found the description I can identify the most with, ever.

    They even meantioned nihilism

    The Five with a Four-Wing: "The Iconoclast"

    The traits of the Five and those of the Four reinforce each other in many ways. Both Five and Four are withdrawn types: they turn to the inner world of their imagination to defend their egos and to reinforce their sense of self. They both feel that something essential in themselves must be found before they can live their lives completely. Fives lack the confidence to act, and Fours lack a strong, stable sense of identity. Thus, Fives with a Four-wing have difficulty connecting with others and staying grounded. People of this subtype are more emotional and introverted than Fives with a Six-wing, althrough paradoxically, they tend to be more sociable than the other subtype. As a result of their Four component, they are also more interested in the personal and intrapsychic. The two types also have some significant differences in their approach. Fives are cerebral, holding experience at arm's length, while Fours internalize everything to intensify their feelings. Despite these differences--or because of them--these two personality types make one of the richest subtypes, combining possibilities for outstanding artistic as well as intellectual achievement.

    Notewothy examples of this subtype include Albert Einstein, Werner Heisenburg, Friedrich Nietzsche, Georgia O'Keeffe, John Cage, John Lennon, k. d. lang, Laurie Anderson, James Joyce, Emily Dickinson, Stanley Kubrick, David Lynch, Buster Keaton, Gary Larson, Stephen King, Tim Burton, Clive Barker, Franz Kafka, Umberto Eco, Jean-Paul Sartre, Oriana Fallaci, Glenn Gould, Peter Serkin, Hannah Arendt, Kurt Cobain, and Vincent van Gogh.

    In healthy people of this subtype, we find the union of intuition and knowledge, sensitivity and insight, aesthetic appreciation and intellectual endowments. Fives with a Four-wing are likely to be involved in the arts as writers, directors, designers, musicians, composers, choreographers, and so forth. The subtype has been somewhat overlooked in many descriptions of Fives because they do not fit the stereotype of the academic/scientific Five (the Five with a Six-wing). This subtype is more synthetic in its thinking, pulling things together and seeking out new ways of looking at things, Also, Fives with a Four-wing tend to utilize their imaginations more than the analytic, systematic parts of the mind which are more the domain of the other subtype. If they are involved in science, Fives with a Four-wing are drawn to those areas in which there is less emphasis on experimentation and data collection than on intuition and comprehensive vision. This subtype is particularly aware of--and on the lookout for--the beauty in a mathematical formula, for example. For this subtype, beauty is one of the indications of truth, because the order which beauty represents is a confirmation of the objective rightness of an idea. One of the foremost strengths of healthy Fives with a Four-wing lies precisely in their intuition, since intuition helps them uncover areas of knowledge where their conscious thoughts have not yet ventured. The Four-wing adds a desire to find a unique, personal vision to the curiosity and perceptiveness of the Five, and the result is a propensity to "tinker" with familiar forms until they become something almost unrecognizable. In talented Fives with a Four-wing this can lead to startling innovations in their chosen fields of endeavor.

    In Average Fives with a Four-wing, the Four-wing adds emotional depth, but causes difficulties in sustaining efforts and in working with others. Fives with a Four-wing are more independent than Fives with a Six-wing and resist having structures and deadlines imposed on them. There can be an off-putting detachment from the environment, both because they are involved in their thoughts and because they are introverted and emotionally self-absorbed. Analytic powers may be used to keep people at arm's length rather than to understand them more deeply. Emotionally delicate, people of this subtype can be moody and hypersensitive to criticism, particularly regarding the value of their work or ideas, since this impinges directly upon self-esteem. Both component types tend to withdraw from people and be reclusive. They can be highly creative and imaginative, envisioning alternate realities in great detail, but can get lost in their own cerebral landscapes. The Four-wing gives a propensity to fantasizing, but with the Five with the Four-wing, the subject matter tends toward the surreal and fantastic rather than the romantic. Individuals of this subtype can become highly impractical, spending most of their time reading, playing intellectual games, or specializing in trivia. There is often an attraction to dark, forbidden subject matter or to any way of self-expression which would disturb or upset others. Some Fives with a Four-wing become fascinated with the macabre and the horrific. As they become more impractical and fearful about their possibilities in life, one typical solution is to find emotional solace in various forms of self-indulgence--in alcohol, drugs, or sexual escapades.

    Unhealthy persons of this subtype may fall prey to debilitating depressions yet be disturbed by aggressive impulses. Envy of others mixes with contempt for them; the desire to isolate the self from the world mixes with regret that it must be so. Intellectual conflicts make their emotional lives seem hopeless, while their emotional conflicts make intellectual work difficult to sustain. Moreover, if this subtype becomes neurotic, it is one of the most alienated of all of the personality types: profoundly hopeless, nihilistic, self-inhibiting, isolated from others, and full of self-hatred. Unhealthy Fives with a Four-wing retreat into a very bleak, minimal existence, attempting to cut off from all needs. The self-rejection and dispair of the Four combines with the cynical nihilism of the Five to create a worldview that is relentlessly negative and terrifying. Social isolation, addiction, and chronic depression are common. Suicide is a real possibility.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #2
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    5,932

    Default

    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  3. #3
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    not good ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #4
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    5,932

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    not good ?
    Imo, Enneagram 5 doesn't fit. I think you should try 6w7 and 7w6.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  5. #5
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Imo, Enneagram 5 doesn't fit. I think you should try 6w7 and 7w6.
    No, neither 6 nor 7 fit me so much. I have bolded here what I do not relate to:

    Sixes and Sevens can be mistyped when there is confusion between main type and wing: that is, between a Six with a Seven-wing and a Seven with a Six-wing. Both are Thinking types, and both are driven by anxiety, although they cope with their anxious feelings in strikingly different ways. Sixes tend to react to their anxiety by fretting and becoming more anxious. They may react counterphobically by reacting against their fears, but react they do. Further, anxiety tends to make Sixes more pessimistic and negative about themselves and their prospects. They can be full of self-doubt, while being suspicious of the motives of others.

    Sevens, by contrast are extremely optimistic, and react to anxiety by looking for enjoyable distractions. Sevens suppress their self-doubt as much as possible, and try to keep everything upbeat. Sevens tend to deny the dark corners of their souls, sixes tend to get stuck in them. Sixes, however, have a heightened sense of responsibility and do not allow themselves to "goof off" until all of their obligations have been met. Sevens, for better or for worse, are far more spontaneous, and resist having too many expectations placed on them. They want to be free to come and go as they please, and find the Six's persistent sense of commitment potentially limiting and dull. Sixes tend to find the Seven's lifestyle flighty and irresponsible. In short, sixes seek out structure and guidelines: Sevens resist both.
    I do understand the need for structure and guidelines but I never follow them unquestioned. I rather liked the Iconoclast description
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #6
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    5,932

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    No, neither 6 nor 7 fit me so much. I have bolded here what I do not relate to:

    I do understand the need for structure and guidelines but I never follow them unquestioned. I rather liked the Iconoclast description
    Interesting. How about 9w1(my last guess )?
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  7. #7
    garbage
    Guest

    Default

    Geez, yeah. I've considered that label for myself as well, but the 6 traits (specially those involving ambivalence, looking beyond the surface, and searching for acceptance/loyalty/placement) fit so well for me.

    I wish I could help more, but maybe http://www.netplaces.com/enneagram/the-wing-subtypes/ would be worth a look.

  8. #8
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    Nice article. I can relate to aspects of each (from the healthy to the unhealthy).

    Thx
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  9. #9
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5 sp/sx
    Posts
    2,334

    Default

    I don't think this can help you determine if you're a 5. It presumes you already know your type, and chooses to explain the influence of that 4 wing.

    If you think you're a 5, you should try reading up on the fundamental aspects of the type, preferably from a trusted book, which are plentiful.

    I wouldn't be surprised if you were a 5 though entropie.
    5 3 9

  10. #10
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,625

    Default

    entropie...you're...you're a 7. Like you know that right? (I actually didn't even know you were questioning your e-type). I mean...I don't like sharing my opinion on here with regards to other people's MBTI & e-type because I don't feel that I could know better than them. But I consider you a friend...and it is just so obvious with you. You are a 7. I understand the 7 descriptions are so lame. It took me forever to see my own 7ness as well. And what I'm thinking is that perhaps you are just evolving and thus seeing yourself in the 5w4 description? As 5 is the security point for us? Or maybe you are just totally unhealthy like me...and are currently on the low sides of 5 & 1? What do you think?

Similar Threads

  1. [E5] 5w4
    By Rebe in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 03-31-2014, 02:50 PM
  2. [E5] Enneagram 5w4 versus 5w6
    By Recluse in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 02-15-2013, 04:00 PM
  3. 4w3, 4w5, 5w4, 7w8, 9w8, 9w1 musicians
    By the state i am in in forum Enneagram
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 02-03-2011, 01:48 AM
  4. [E5] 5w4 mb types
    By the state i am in in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 01-26-2010, 02:53 PM
  5. [MBTItm] 4w5 ... 5w4?
    By Nyx in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 09-13-2009, 03:17 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO