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Thread: 7s and Morals

  1. #41
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    I'm a 7w8 and I think I have a strong sense of morals that comes from my Fi.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  2. #42
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    ok, resisting the urge to make a joke out of this i will try to answer honestly...

    my view of morality is a bit different. its not about do's/don'ts, my concept of "good" and "bad" are entirely dependent on the question "good or bad for who?". the answer, and my entire sense of morality, or rather, things i might feel bad or guilty for, lays between my tribalism - doing good by and not doing badly by those i care about, and in recent decade - urge for honesty with myself and the elements of my environment i am willing to let integrate into myself (loved ones). other people are to some extent potentials - people i might come to care about one way or another some day, as well as contributing members of an economy, and they can be people i enjoy, and there's certainly a big grey area between those two extremes, but... that's about it. i value the humanitarian approach, but its not part of anything i feel.
    that's being said, i was ingrained from a young age with a sense of personal responsibility for the consequences of my actions, they are mine whether i like them or not, whether i intended them or not. i value being able to see things from all perspectives, and recognize all of them as elements within reality, whether they are "my own perspective" or not, regardless if they are agreeable to me. as such, it is impossible for me to protect my ego by dismissing, devaluing or not acknowledging when things I've done have hurt people i care about.
    i can't view myself in black or white terms of righteousness, i can't hold a belief in my own moral purity or superiority, i don't get to idealize a life of no regrets, and i don't get to whisper to myself of what great person i am towards people i care about, only that i am on the constant process of getting better at it.

    my two cents.

    ow and i'm a 7w6 sx-dom ENTP based on the most recent updates (before used to think i was a 4w5).

  3. #43
    subterfugee Xann's Avatar
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    ^ Great post.

    In regards to op, it's my opinion that in 7s the style of the morals in the given person are much more mbti function related than enneagram related, and the value and health of that individual of that person within society/their own mind is much more individual than anything that could be described via enneagram.

    I'd also like to add that my brother who is an ENTP 7 has an absolutely wonderful and developed sense of morality, but for some reason I get the impression this is birth order related (large family, hard to explain the dynamics really), as well as due to his personal interest in religion.

  4. #44
    Member roastingmallows's Avatar
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    Is this thread done? D:

    Oh well.

    A lot of 7s seem to use Fi, yes? I think so.

    I once considered myself completely lacking in morals/values and as a result had a hard time relating to definitions of Fi. I guess I just wasn't reading into it correctly though, because it turns out I have very strong morals; they just don't necessarily have anything to do with what is socially acceptable. There are things that many people would find morally reprehensible that I have no problem with at all, and there are things other people have no problem with that I find morally reprehensible. It's all relative, for sure.

    I had an epiphany recently that there are really 4 major sins:
    1. To cause harm to another (be it by intent or negligence, physical or emotional, and to any living thing)
    2. Greed
    3. Extravagance (similar to greed, but this is more related to excessive spending and indulgence and showing off your wealth when there are starving people and what not)
    4. Deception

    I find it difficult to consider any sexual "sin" a true sin (unless it directly violates one of the four), though I've been struggling lately with accepting religion and God into my life while wishing to ignore certain parts of the bible...Perhaps because I am a hedonist indeed and I can't imagine a life without a bit of debauchery...Oh yeah, and a rampant homosexual.

    By conventional standards though, I truly have few morals, and 1 is nowhere in me. Also, I think I have only disintegrated to 1 once that I can think of, and that was when I was also "in the grip" of Ni a while ago. I started to fear my life was meaningless and that I was too impulsive and I was running on autopilot, trying to fulfill every desire I had but not really accomplishing anything of value, so I tried to overcompensate and totally went to 1 for a while, at least mentally. It was weird.

    I can feel myself going to 5 more lately. One of my main issues with development has always been my scattered hobbies and goals, but lately I've been working harder to expand my existing skills rather than acquiring new ones.

  5. #45
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    yes, I definitely would come to the same conclusion if I were born a Mayan. I abso-fucking-lutely would
    you're clearly not an Fi user.
    I don't know, Fi users tend to be naturally more skeptical of the values of their communities, but it's unclear how far that skepticism can take you. Surely, injustices plague our society pervasively, but even the most autonomous of moral reasoners (many of whom could well have been Fi-users) rarely reach radical conclusions. Why? Because even the most independently minded of us tend to be heavily influenced by society's collective beliefs about what is morally appropriate. Back in 1600 when almost everyone believed that blacks were inferior to whites and women to men, it was difficult for skeptics of conventional morality to champion views of racial and gender equality, that's why it took another 150 years for Abraham Lincoln to stand up for the former in the political arena and another 200 years for a comprehensive women's suffrage movement to be organized.

    Had you been born a Mayan, it would have been difficult for you to even begin questioning the moral justifiability of human sacrifice simply because no-one would give you even the slightest clue this practice was wrong. Essentially, it is difficult for anyone to come up with original moral insights that are based on practically nothing, you'd need at least the slightest hint that human sacrifice is wrong and in the Mayan society, you may not even have that.

    Oh and by the way, I know that Aztecs practiced human sacrifice, not sure if Mayans also did, but that wouldn't surprise me.

  6. #46
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    this 7w6 will fuck you up if you cross his values.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  7. #47
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Over time I came to the conclusion that ethicality is universal, however it is not constant, it doesn't tell you what to do, and you are more responsible to it/intertwined with it as you become more interconnected. My belief is that humans should be bioengineered for ethicality.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  8. #48
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    i know. i'm still trying to get my head around "mine are totally changeable".....i can't begin to imagine what that must be/feel like/entail...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    you're such an ENTP =P
    i'm also a type 7. morals are important, they are my backbone in life. without them, i would be....a dishonest person? a coward? that's how it feels like...

  9. #49
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    i know. i'm still trying to get my head around "mine are totally changeable".....i can't begin to imagine what that must be/feel like/entail...
    i'm also a type 7. morals are important, they are my backbone in life. without them, i would be....a dishonest person? a coward? that's how it feels like...
    apart from ENFP, we're both 1 fixers, I think that has something to do with it.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  10. #50
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    i never said i was a 1 fixer and i still dont believe i am
    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    apart from ENFP, we're both 1 fixers, I think that has something to do with it.

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