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Thread: 4s & gender

  1. #31
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    So you see 5s as lacking gendered traits in general, and 4s having a mixture of stereotypically masculine and feminine traits, right? I can agree with this to an extent, but overall I see 5s as being primarily a masculine type (probably the second most masculine after 8s actually), and 4s as more feminine. The typically cold, calm, logical, unexpressive nature of 5s is closer to the average western idea of masculinity than the deeply emotional, sensitive nature of 4s.
    I totally agree with this. I'm a girl and a 5, but I've always felt more "masculine" than feminine really. There's nothing masculine in my appearence (maybe just the fact that I almost never wear skirts or dresses, but that's all), nor do I look like a tomboy, play football or like cars, etc... But there's something that I feel alienates me from other women; I don't relate much with their emotional problems or their usual interests (fashion, shopping, romantical books or movies...). My best friends are women indeed, but there's like a gap between us.
    Also, in front of a baby I'm completely expressionless (although I can get quite tender with baby-animals) and I don't have maternal instincts at all.

    I've had these traits since my earliest years as a kid; I never wanted to play with dolls, only with toy dinosaurs, spiders, monsters and the like. So it's not really something learned from the environment, but an inborn characteristic.
    Many times I feel sad and uncomfortable being a woman. Guess I'd been happier being a (gay) man....

    However, I'd like to think that all these gender roles are just products of our society, that there's nothing in nature that truly says that power and strenght is "masculine" and tenderness or emotions are "feminine". Nowadays the roles seem too inflexible. The artists from Romanticism, for example, exalted feelings above everything else, and nobody thought of them as girly because of that (as crazy, maybe).

  2. #32
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    I exclaimed once at work " I swear I'm a gay man, trapped in a women's body." My co-worker at the time, told me it would explain a lot if I was. I'm still not quite sure how to take that.
    That and I'm missing a maternal chip or some thing...apparently though, I'm all gentle and caring once you get past the gruff exterior. And who hates puppies?
    Seriously though, I'm not particularly feminine for a woman. Sure I wear appropriate attire, even have a flair for fashion, but I don't feel real girly. I'm pretty intimidating "apparently", and aloof. I just don't look a nurturing mommy type.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyDigestion View Post
    First question: isn't life like a performance??
    No. It's like perfume.

    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyDigestion View Post
    I could probably very easily play the woman role in a theatrical tragedy like Romeo & Juliet. I could do it with grace, beauty, & precision, & probably win some awards at it.
    and the sleeping part? Do you think you could make Romeo fall in love with you? And the most important in that, the tragedy. It's not just Juliet. But Romeo is influenced by Juliet. And for the play to have the luscious aspects of love, beauty and tragedy genuine feelings makes it so much better. Like when you kiss Romeo, that the passion from the kiss can permeate the entire audience.
    (:

    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    I exclaimed once at work " I swear I'm a gay man, trapped in a women's body." My co-worker at the time, told me it would explain a lot if I was. I'm still not quite sure how to take that.
    It's interesting you choose to use 'trapped'. This indicates disharmony. And that you you are not fully satisfied with the 'tools' you have to 'tackle' a man? My first idea was that the man wasn't interested, probably not gay.

    If you mean social. I wouldn't worry. These are imo mostly constructs, and anyone can play any role, if learned(ignoring slow learners). But the next dimension, that is different.

  4. #34
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy View Post

    It's interesting you choose to use 'trapped'. This indicates disharmony. And that you you are not fully satisfied with the 'tools' you have to 'tackle' a man? My first idea was that the man wasn't interested, probably not gay.

    If you mean social. I wouldn't worry. These are imo mostly constructs, and anyone can play any role, if learned(ignoring
    slow learners). But the next dimension, that is different.
    Where's my troll spray?
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    Where's my troll spray?
    I keep mine in my bag, look there. Read again. I actually used a bit of time on that post. You can address a point I am wrong about, and we can discuss it.

  6. #36
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy View Post
    I keep mine in my bag, look there. Read again. I actually used a bit of time on that post. You can address a point I am wrong about, and we can discuss it.
    I'm not sure if you are serious or not. Reread my post, I didn't mention any men.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

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  7. #37
    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy View Post
    and the sleeping part? Do you think you could make Romeo fall in love with you? And the most important in that, the tragedy. It's not just Juliet. But Romeo is influenced by Juliet. And for the play to have the luscious aspects of love, beauty and tragedy genuine feelings makes it so much better.
    The sleeping part is probably my best part, that's what I practiced for. That's when I learned how to make Romeo fall in love too. They (the characters) appeared to me in a dream & said it... of course. My geuine feelings are a millions of peelings.

    Like when you kiss Romeo, that the passion from the kiss can permeate the entire audience.
    (:
    Yeah, that's what I'd do. I would permeate the audience.
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    "Man is free, but his freedom ceases when he has no faith in it."

  8. #38
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    and the sleeping part? Do you think you could make Romeo fall in love with you? And the most important in that, the tragedy. It's not just Juliet. But Romeo is influenced by Juliet. And for the play to have the luscious aspects of love, beauty and tragedy genuine feelings makes it so much better. Like when you kiss Romeo, that the passion from the kiss can permeate the entire audience.
    Funny that you say that, since in Shakespearean times female roles were played by young men. Also, what has to do the real sexuality of actors with the quality of performance? As long as they're good actors, it's not needed that they love or hate each other in real life.

    There are lots of gay actors, and I don't see anybody complaining because they have to kiss women that they don't like.
    Double standards anybody?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    I'm not sure if you are serious or not. Reread my post, I didn't mention any men.
    Yes you did.
    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    I'm a gay man
    It obviously matters that I called your coworker a he. Not sure why.
    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyDigestion View Post
    The sleeping part is probably my best part, that's what I practiced for. That's when I learned how to make Romeo fall in love too. They (the characters) appeared to me in a dream & said it... of course. My geuine feelings are a millions of peelings.
    That's great. But do you also fall in love, or is it just Romeo? I guess I mean the 'loose yourself in someone'.

    Quote Originally Posted by taylor17387 View Post
    Funny that you say that, since in Shakespearean times female roles were played by young men. Also, what has to do the real sexuality of actors with the quality of performance? As long as they're good actors, it's not needed that they love or hate each other in real life.

    There are lots of gay actors, and I don't see anybody complaining because they have to kiss women that they don't like.
    What? A straight actor can suck as much as a gay actor.

    But you do not understand my point. Ask yourself. What gives you the most emotions. A real life transfer of a hanging of some innocent person, say gay people in Irak, or some cartoon animation if similar incident. The former may not even be allowed to show.

    So yes, I do think it will give the best performance if straight people play straight people, and gay people play gay people. Or just as bad.. the emotions doesn't have to be there then either. With Shakespeare it was forbidden for women to play, right? Religious stuff. I think that was why men had to do the acting. I'm sure a woman could have done just a good a job at the time. Or perhaps it would have been the same. FunnyDigestion suggest that it would be similar, or more of an personal ability to ignite emotions in the love aspect of the other person..

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Fours, I typically scan as female regardless of true gender.
    Well I have to tell you I have been categorized as an "honorary woman" by a certain person at work. I probably would have regarded this more positively had it happened 1:1, but it happened with practically everyone in on it. I suppose I should be thankful they were all women.

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