User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 51

Thread: 4s & gender

  1. #21
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    I'm a 4 and I have a penis. 4 peni, actually.

  2. #22
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    eNFJ
    Enneagram
    4w3 sx/so
    Socionics
    eNFJ Ni
    Posts
    11,443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    I'm a 4 and I have a penis. 4 peni, actually.
    That sounds crippling.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  3. #23
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    CZEEEEEE!! XX OO

    OP - This brings up something that has been bothering me for some time. When I was young, I was very subdued and self-contained. I was the archetypal wallflower, albeit a very intense and irascible one. I stayed "tomboy" for a lot longer than my other girlfriends, into my teens. I felt boyish and enjoyed "boy" activities (or things associated traditionally with boys), like anything that meant getting dirty, while liking "girly" things, like clothes and glitter and make-up. I stayed shuttered up in myself into my teens, even after my first boyfriend at 16.

    My sister tells me that I "came into my own" in my early to mid 20s. I'm not sure what happened. Something just kicked in. It was and is a mystery to me - I just woke up one day and there it was? I felt altered somehow. After that, I began noticing that I attracted both men and women sexually, which was surprising to me because I feel, at any given time, a great deal less attractive than my sister and my female best friends who are both vibrant and pretty. My ENTJ best friend has reported being attractive to other women, and she isn't sure why.

    Is that "male" energy? Is that "androgyny"? Does it have to do with being a sx 4?

    I'm not sure? It's very frustrating. I don't find mysteries flattering.
    Hai!

    Keke, this reminds me of an article I read in Curve or Bitch magazine or something. Basically it was talking about 'lesbian chic' and how frustrating it was because you would hit on women who you TOTALLY thought was queer because they dressed and styled themselves "very lezzie" (including thick unattractive glasses, short choppy haircuts, leather bracelets, etc.) but "they aren't a lesbian, they're a book editor, or an artist, or some other artsy occupation and have a boyfriend". Haha. I think this is around the time L Word was coming out.

    I think in your case perhaps you give off a wild or "alternative lifestyle" energy and that's what is attracting the women. I think this probably happens to yoga teachers, belly dancers, and punk bassists. Women get from your energy and persona that you are anti-establishment/open to things including dating other women. Or they are just attracted to your spunk. Queer women generally like spunky women.

    I think the reason your ENTJ friend attracts women is different. My EXFJ roommate was very straight but 1) she had a very domineering, assertive personality (very bossy but not in a girly way :P) and 2) she wore a lot of flannel and always wore pants (HAHAHAHA) She said she got hit on by women all the time, especially when she had a short haircut.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  4. #24
    Senior Member typologywhore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyDigestion View Post
    Like women 4s usually have a cold, hardass element that seems out of place, while male 4s usually have a gentle, sympathetic element that seems out of place... even though ultimately male & female 4s are probably mostly the same.

    What do you think? Are 4s the most androgynous type?
    Hn, well. This is an issue close to my heart. -blushes- I don't really have a theory on the matter to extend to all 4s, but maybe a bit of info on my own situation may be of interest.

    I identify as androgyne (that is, both/neither male/female), I feel very queer and un-heteronormative: I'm bisexual and a girl who does feel like a girl, yes, but also feels like he's a boy as well or at the same or every other day or every other second, and also feels like they're neither. This is a big part of my identity, and so to realise/express it I do very much cultivate androgyny in my self-presentation. Some of this is at the level of clothes choice -- I combine both guy's and girls' stuff, and will dress "more boy" some days and "more girl" others, depending on which element of myself I want to embody at that particular time. And it extends to behaviour, too; I tend to semi-consciously adopt gay guy-ish kinda mannerisms in order to come across as generally more queer/faggy because that's always good, right?

    I've often wondered how people read me in terms of gender and sexual orientation and actually asked a friend the other day what he pegged me as initially: the answer was "cool-tomboy-girl, and straight...ish"...which I found rather amusing because straight is the last thing I feel, haha XD

    So how does 4-ishness play into this? Well, it was that natural aptitude for extremely probing, high-focus internal awareness that has enabled me to realise my gender "issues"/whatevahthefuckthisis in the first place; and it's the need for both honest and unique self-expression that moves me to try to express my felt experience of my gender through presentation and behaviour.

    And a side-note: not long ago I read someone claim that the whole atmosphere of the contemporary queer scene is very 4w3. Perhaps this is part of the reason why 4s are often perceived as more-than-averagely androgynous and/or queer?

  5. #25
    Senior Member Turtledove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    376

    Default

    I'm a 4 and I personally don't see myself as "androgynous" as you describe. I do enjoy some guy stuff like action movies and RPG video games while enjoying other feminine things like faeries and clothes. I'm short and petite and I wear skirts and dresses a lot.

    For the record, I knew you were a guy, just more emotional. It's because of your writing style and the pic you took a while back in one of the forums.
    Save Thundercats 2011 petition. Because we do what we can. HO!!!:
    http://www.change.org/petitions/warn...another-season

  6. #26
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Yeah, this is exactly why I thought I was an INTP for awhile. There are a lot of INFP descriptions out there which make us sound like we are extroverted feelers and I didn't relate to that at all.

    This isn't to say that I'm not feminine, I guess. But not in the traditional way. In all honesty, I don't perceive myself in terms of gender all that much. I don't think of myself as a woman so much as a human. I often find myself identifying more with male musicians/writers/protagonists, not because they are male, but just because they often don't seem to be so caught up in gender. They are people, vs with females/female characters there often seems to be this emphasis on being a woman, confiding in your girl friends/ female solidarity, etc, that I really don't relate to.
    I'm super feminine in some ways, but it's more with shallow stuff, such as a girly appearance or an interest in fashion (which I'm finding is really a gender neutral interest; tons of women hate fashion & some men really like it). Besides a general timidity more often associated with femininity, I don't consider my demeanor heavily feminine (but not necessarily masculine). I remember being in school around groups of girls at recess and not relating to how they acted or what they'd say. I'd tend to just develop one or two close friends for that reason, not hanging with a group of girls.

    I too identity heavily with a lot of male characters/musicians as much as female ones (because there are female ones I identify with, but then they are often written to be or come across as "different"). Unfortunately, female characters are often reduced to conveyors of ideas about typical women or ideal women, not fully fleshed out individuals with flaws & idiosyncrasies (except a few cutesy quirks). But that's a tangent...

    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    i definitely have more feminine than masculine traits, but i've always had some kind of disconnect with most girls where i feel unlike them. but not a tomboy or a guy's girl either, although i do find guys easier to hang out with sometimes. i guess it's the whole maternal caretaker thing, i just don't have it. me and my best friend always talk about how we're not 'real' girls.
    The bolded is a big thing for me too as far as feeling different.... I never oohed and ahhed over babies or kids, never babysat, never dreamed of being a mom. I like kids, I even work with them, but I have no desire to care for them. When I work with little kids, internally I feel slightly annoyed when they need me to tie their shoe or whatever. I find my approach reminds me of male teachers I had growing up; I'm more about imparting knowledge than nurturing.

    I would never call myself a tomboy either, and as I said above, I can be quite girly superficially, but I've never had the maternal thing going on, nor the "social group" thing. I get along great with other women, but it's usually one-on-one. As an adult, I've made a conscious effort to try & relate to people more, instead of immediately seeing what is "different" and then feeling "different" (4 issue there...), and that includes my interactions with women I'd otherwise feel alienated from. It's definitely helped to ease the sense of alienation, but then I still get direct feedback from people informing them I am different in some ways.

    For example, I had a conversation with my ISFJ mom where I was arguing that a lot of supposed gender traits are stereotypes or a result of social conditioning, and that individual personality has more impact on how people think/feel/act. My mom was listing stuff that "all women" do and "all men" do, and then I pointed out where I was an exception to some of those to prove my point, and her reply was, "Yeah, but you're.... different".
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  7. #27
    Member Matt_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    77

    Default

    4w5 male here. I like to think I'm more macho than I was growing up. (I just found myself yelling at a televised football game after typing the previous sentence). The simple act of analyzing one's masculinity strikes me as feminine. I've always been far too accommodating to be very masculine.

    Eventually I arrived at the conclusion that the most accommodating thing I could do was bust balls and slap backs. Being a kind and nurturing man makes a lot of people uncomfortable. Sometimes I wonder if I went full on ass-hole somewhere along the way but I tell myself if I have to ask I haven't. Any masculinity I display is just a reaction to my inherent instinct to care for people's feelings.
    The best-laid schemes o' mice an 'men
    Gang aft agley
    -Robert Burns

  8. #28
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INfj
    Enneagram
    451 sx/so
    Socionics
    ENFj Ni
    Posts
    5,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_s View Post
    4w5 male here. I like to think I'm more macho than I was growing up. (I just found myself yelling at a televised football game after typing the previous sentence). The simple act of analyzing one's masculinity strikes me as feminine. I've always been far too accommodating to be very masculine.

    Eventually I arrived at the conclusion that the most accommodating thing I could do was bust balls and slap backs. Being a kind and nurturing man makes a lot of people uncomfortable. Sometimes I wonder if I went full on ass-hole somewhere along the way but I tell myself if I have to ask I haven't. Any masculinity I display is just a reaction to my inherent instinct to care for people's feelings.

    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  9. #29
    Senior Member Jade Curtiss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/sx
    Socionics
    LII
    Posts
    129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyDigestion View Post
    Or gender "roles", if you think life is like a performance.

    First question: isn't life like a performance??

    But, I think 5s are the least gender-particular Enneagram type. All 5s are kinda the same, in their behavior. 4s are more mysterious, usually they have some androgynous feature that's hard to put your finger on. Like women 4s usually have a cold, hardass element that seems out of place, while male 4s usually have a gentle, sympathetic element that seems out of place... even though ultimately male & female 4s are probably mostly the same.

    What do you think? Are 4s the most androgynous type?
    So you see 5s as lacking gendered traits in general, and 4s having a mixture of stereotypically masculine and feminine traits, right? I can agree with this to an extent, but overall I see 5s as being primarily a masculine type (probably the second most masculine after 8s actually), and 4s as more feminine. The typically cold, calm, logical, unexpressive nature of 5s is closer to the average western idea of masculinity than the deeply emotional, sensitive nature of 4s. But for most cultures, the archetypal gender roles would be 2 for females and 8 for males.

    As a 5 with a strong 4 wing, I identify as more masculine than feminine, but also feel adrogynous in some circumstances.
    The mind shows only what is near the heart - Elder Edda

    Ti>Fi>Ne>>>Si>Te>Se>Ni>>>Fe - LII - 5w4 sp/sx 5w4-4w5-1w9
    |R|cUeI - Phlegmatic/Melancholic - Mystic - Neutral Good

  10. #30
    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Posts
    1,137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtledove View Post
    For the record, I knew you were a guy, just more emotional. It's because of your writing style and the pic you took a while back in one of the forums.
    Hehe, thanks.. I always appreciate someone acknowledging me.

    I find women a lot easier to hang out with because I can flirt with them, & my natural communication style tends to be somewhat flirtatious. I used to find that some men seemed uncomfortable talking to me, like they thought I was hitting on them or something. & a lot of times I've been talking to men-&-women together & the guy's gotten pissed at me b/c he thought I was hitting on his girlfriend. I guess subconsciously I usually am, but the intensity of the reaction is always baffling to me. Like I was blackout drunk at a bar one time & got in a fight with some guy because he thought I was flirting with his girlfriend.. which I guess I'm proud of because it means I can successfully flirt with people when I'm "totally wasted", but i ended up with a broken wrist the next morning so i ultimately wasn't too happy with it.

    So, I suppose I feel androgynous in the sense that femininity is very easy for me to understand-- I could probably very easily play the woman role in a theatrical tragedy like Romeo & Juliet. I could do it with grace, beauty, & precision, & probably win some awards at it. Oh yes... that stuff is very easy to me. Femininity is the counterpart to masculinity, so... if you understand one you understand the other, right?

    As for being a 'maternal caretaker', I suppose the male counterpart to that is being a disciplinarian, which I hate... I don't believe in it. Authority figures are very loathsome to my eyes.

    Last thing, I recall one of the characteristics listed of 4s (as well as INFPs I believe) was the tendency to "daydream about a rescuer"... I think there's a lot of deep truth to that, & that not necessarilya feminine thing. It's like having someone to finally understand you. when I was a kid I was always day-dreaming of saving girls off railroad tracks & whatnot... the 'damsel in distress' thing is a very basic part of my psyche. Although now I guess I'm probably more in need of rescue than any girl, funny how the tables turn. I guess one's the natural flipside to the other. The distressed princess is the flipside to the courageous hero. The one contains the other.
    RCUAI
    ---------
    "Man is free, but his freedom ceases when he has no faith in it."

Similar Threads

  1. What GENDER are you? With poll! Awww yeahh baby!
    By Tigerlily in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 157
    Last Post: 12-15-2016, 07:27 AM
  2. BBC Gender Test
    By Totenkindly in forum Online Personality Tests
    Replies: 106
    Last Post: 04-20-2012, 11:47 AM
  3. Gender Differences
    By wildcat in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 10-11-2008, 04:04 PM
  4. Gender Bias in Type Identification / Interrelating
    By ptgatsby in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 05-24-2007, 05:08 PM
  5. Does SJ vs SP account for gender bias?
    By Tayshaun in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-17-2007, 08:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO