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[Type 8] Are 8 and Fi similar?

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No, the innate Fi-desire is not to be left alone. Isolation is little more than a means to an end for Fi-doms, typically cherished not for its own sake but for the help it provides in reconciling emotional consistency and clarity with a sense of self. That's kind of why Fi doms aren't recluses 24-7.
 

Totenkindly

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no that way definitely not my question. they do not look the same. my question was really "do they share similar internal desires and motivations?"

My very first comment answered that.

Where do Fi values come from? Who knows? But they're instinctive, based on personal proclivity.
Same thing as the "gut instinct" that Eight operates from.

But for me, that's like saying grapes and apples are very similar because they both have stems, which to me is silly -- pears and apples have far more in common.

I think the interaction of auxilary Fi and tertiary Te in EFPs also acts in a more 8-ish way than dominant Fi.

Hmm... the tert Te might be the main factor there. Fi-dom has a wide spread between internal valueset and Te "hard-edged" expression, Fi-doms usually only express Te early when it "escapes from them" rather than using it as a more natural tool.

the opposite. MBTI is how you do things (via your cognitive functions). thus it is somewhat observable if you can spot "that was Ne" "that was Fi"; Enneagram is why you do things. there are observable similarities between many people of the same type, but there are people who show little to no external signs of their type.

Sorry my opinion wasn't helpful to you.
 

wolfy

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The last thing I want is to be left alone. I like people around me while I do my own thing. That is bliss.
 

Elfboy

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Yeah. Live and let live. Unless, you know...
From the descriptions it sounds like eight like to control their environment. I don't like the descriptions because I think they focus in behaviour too much. But, if eight is about control then I don't think Fi and eight mesh that well. Strength I can agree on.

wanting to control their environment is a bi product of wanting control over their lives. an 8 views life as a harsh dangerous place where you fight or you get beat to a pulp. they want to control their environment when they feel it encroaches upon them, but not for its own sake.
also, you were right initially, enneagram is about motivations and predisposed world view, not behavior.
 

wolfy

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also, you were right initially, enneagram is about motivations and predisposed world view, not behavior.

If something is about motivations it would be invisible or at least could be. Wanting control over your life is about strength. Wanting control over others is about control. They are different to me.
 

Elfboy

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My very first comment answered that.

Where do Fi values come from? Who knows? But they're instinctive, based on personal proclivity.
Same thing as the "gut instinct" that Eight operates from.
I think this is a significant similarity personally :yes:

Hmm... the tert Te might be the main factor there. Fi-dom has a wide spread between internal valueset and Te "hard-edged" expression, Fi-doms usually only express Te early when it "escapes from them" rather than using it as a more natural tool.
I think so too. Fi/Te = Te external implementation + Fi gut energy and passion = similar to 8


Sorry my opinion wasn't helpful to you.
I'm sorry too, looking back at my post, the wording came off much harsher than what I was trying to communicate.
 

Elfboy

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If something is about motivations it would be invisible or at least could be. Wanting control over your life is about strength. Wanting control over others is about control. They are different to me.

wanting control over others for an 8 is a tactic (and thus sometimes incorrectly perceived by the 8 as the same thing), not a desire in and of itself. as an ISFP 9, this is probably completely different from how you would handle a situation in which you felt you your freedom was threatened.
 

Silveresque

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8s and FPs both
- a strong, visceral response to injustice sometimes
- insist on being independent sometimes
- become extremely pissed if you try to control them no, though I usually get annoyed/irritated when people control my time or invade my space
- are wild and free spirited and disdain rules and being expected to be "appropriate" no
- strong disliking for social expectation YES
- solid and resilient (FPs to social conditioning and moral adversity; 8s to everything) not sure what you mean
- both tend to have protective personalities (though the 8 is likely to be a little more so right off the bat while most FPs tend to wait a little longer to step in) probably
- value truth over tact (FPs often value tact and saying things in a nice way when possible, but not at the expense of truth) sometimes
- both have beliefs and/or preferences that they will not compromise on under any circumstances no
- both insist on doing things "their way" no

In my case, independence and dislike of social expectations come from introversion, not Fi specifically. It's possible I'm not an INFP, but this doesn't really work for me.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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I can't help, but think of the thread where you believed yourself to be an ESTJ... Because I feel like this is essentially the same idea. I see you associating your own Fi love of qualities that are supposed to be manifested by extroverted thinking. Keep trying, but it's a limit. A 7 as it approach 8 diverges to +-infinity.
 

entropie

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How can an individualistic nature, who is against everything be protective of another one ? Isnt he in that regards not more like directive than protective, in forcing his worldimage onto another person ?
 

Moiety

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Fi and Te are two sides of the same coin. Both are related to the gut instinct too. So yeah, there is definitely a connection.

It's tough to understand what comes first...the ennneagram motivation or the cognitive functions. At least in the form of a model or a pattern than fits most people. If one is really serious about self-discovery and self-understanding one can easily see the correlations in him/herself I think. At least that has been my experience.

There is also something to be said about enneagram 9 and Fi and 8 and Te. Seeing how 9 and 8 are close to each other and are seemingly paradoxical, yet intimately related, it makes sense the whole thing is connected in some form.

8 is also the stereotype of the adult impulse and 9 of the divine child impulse.

EDIT : "Divine" child in the sense of not being tainted by worldly affairs. Still submerged in the oceanic view Freud talks about. Which explains the 9 tendency to daydream and often feel disconnected from their body energy.
 

rav3n

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Fi and Te are two sides of the same coin. Both are related to the gut instinct too. So yeah, there is definitely a connection.
No. Fi is about individual values and Te is used as the means to an end.
 

Moiety

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Exactly, two sides of the same coin.

Te is about objectifying criteria and Fi is subjective criteria.

A Te-dominant is good at implementing but it has to be fueled by some subjective criteria (Si or Ni/ESTJ or ENTJ).
A Fi-dominant is good at evaluation but it has to have an outward movement of expression (Se or Ne).


Two sides of the same coin are by definition in opposition to each other. What I'm saying is that the coin is the same. :)
 

Eric B

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8 would seem to best fit ETJ types, who have inferior Fi (which can be very "projective"). So that's probably where such an association would come from.
 

Moiety

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^were I come from, if you are a FP and you are a man there's a good chance you are also an 8. I think 8 = Te is an oversimplification that doesn't explain much.It's like saying Pe-dominants are 7s by default. There seem to be some statistical tendencies but there's a whole nother ball game at play too.

8s assert their presence. Te can be a way of doing it, but it's certainly not the only one.
 

gromit

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No. Fi is about individual values and Te is used as the means to an end.

I would say that one informs the other. How would you determine what the end should be if you don't value one thing over another? That is how I seem to work, when, if, I use Te.
 

rav3n

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I would say that one informs the other. How would you determine what the end should be if you don't value one thing over another? That is how I seem to work, when, if, I use Te.
If I recall my function theory correctly, dom and inferior are combatants.
 

Moiety

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I would say that one informs the other. How would you determine what the end should be if you don't value one thing over another? That is how I seem to work, when, if, I use Te.

You wouldn't. Without Si an ESTJ doesn't know what to do with his Te. The same applies to an ENTJ without his Ni.

Te Orders and Fi eValueates. One implies the other. You can't order without making an evaluation and you can't evaluate without establishing an order. They are just two different approaches. A right brain and a left brain approach. Non-Linear vs linear. Holistic vs atomistic.
 

Jaguar

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I think 8 = Te is an oversimplification that doesn't explain much.

Agreed. There's another way to look at it:

For instance, associated with zone 8, as 'prototypical', is the 'extraverted thinking' pair (ESTJ, ENTJ). Both types have 'thinking' (T) as the dominant function. They are the only two 'extraverted thinking' types amongst the 16. But it is not dominant extraverted 'thinking' that they share with the other members of the zone 8 family, but issues associated with underdeveloped feeling.

Now, some ESTPs and ENTPs may also test as 8s, although they do not have feeling as their fourth function. Nevertheless, we hypothesize, feeling will be underdeveloped in these particular individuals and it is this (and related issues) that they share with the others in zone 8

Just because a function like Fi is in the Aux position of an EXFP doesn't mean it's developed. Function orders are mere guidelines for what may, or may not, occur. Type development is not carved in stone. That means an EXFP could share the same issue as an ETJ and ETP 8 - underdeveloped feeling. (Which is not to be confused with emotion.)

Source:
http://tap3x.net/EMBTI/page3.html

------------------------------------------------------

Jung saw the Dom and Inferior functions developing in a compensatory manner, not combative. Furthermore, Dario Nardi proposed that each of the cognitive processes can be used with its opposite in a tandem relationship. To me, it's perfectly natural to envision the cog processes used in such a manner.


Engage Processes in Tandem for Powerful Results


Source:
http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/8keys.html

Scoll down the page to find the tandem descriptions.
It's a good read.
 
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