[Type 8] Are 8 and Fi similar?

[Elfboy]

when you look at them a little deeper, that have a lot in common with each other

8s and FPs both
- a strong, visceral response to injustice
- insist on being independent
- become extremely pissed if you try to control them
- are wild and free spirited and disdain rules and being expected to be "appropriate"
- strong disliking for social expectation
- solid and resilient (FPs to social conditioning and moral adversity; 8s to everything)
- both tend to have protective personalities (though the 8 is likely to be a little more so right off the bat while most FPs tend to wait a little longer to step in)
- value truth over tact (FPs often value tact and saying things in a nice way when possible, but not at the expense of truth)
- both have beliefs and/or preferences that they will not compromise on under any circumstances
- both insist on doing things "their way"

I don't see how being an FP 8 seems to contradictory to some people. their motivations are extremely similar

 

[Kierva]

Depends on how assertive the individual is.

 

[Elfboy]

Depends on how assertive the individual is.

true. lots of FPs kind of implode when angry more like a 9. FPs that are assertive seem a lot like 8s though

 

[Kierva]

true. lots of FPs kind of implode when angry more like a 9. FPs that are assertive seem a lot like 8s though

lol look at my siggy???

 

[Totenkindly]

I would not compare Fi and 8's except in the area of gut instinct, I suppose...

But 8 is typically describing external behavior rather than internal processing (aka Ji) -- it is predominately a "moving against" enneagram type and is recognized/thought of in those terms, a type where growth involves learning restraint. When you say Fi AKA Fi doms, that would be the ISFP and the INFP, and neither is typically type 8 because their external working style is SO different than type 8 aggression/assertion. You're more likely to see that behavior from Extroverted mbti types.

The type with the most intersection between Fi and 8 would probably be the ENFP, which is Fi-secondary but shows a lot of "moving against" external behavior. Other likely 8's probably Te primaries and the ESTP.

 

[011235813]

You're glamourising a bunch of negative gut instincts and defences (which is basically what enneagram is) and applying them to a cognitive function. That's not how it works.

 

[Elfboy]

I would not compare Fi and 8's except in the area of gut instinct, I suppose...

But 8 is typically describing external behavior rather than internal processing (aka Ji) -- it is predominately a "moving against" enneagram type and is recognized/thought of in those terms, a type where growth involves learning restraint.

I would disagree. the Enneagram is a very internal classification system and the core desire of an 8 is control and autonomy, the latter being something an FP would most likely relate to strongly on a deep seated, gut level like an 8 (other types, INTPs for example, are averse to external control as well, but this aversion for FPs and 8s is much deeper down, it's kind hard to explain. ). desire for autonomy is much more intrinsically motivated that extrinsically

When you say Fi AKA Fi doms, that would be the ISFP and the INFP, and neither is typically type 8 because their external working style is SO different than type 8 aggression/assertion. You're more likely to see that behavior from Extroverted mbti types.

I was talking about IFPs and EFPs
I stress again that Enneagram is not a behavior model as much as a world view/irrational motivation/blind spots model.

The type with the most intersection between Fi and 8 would probably be the ENFP, which is Fi-secondary but shows a lot of "moving against" external behavior. Other likely 8's probably Te primaries and the ESTP.

now that I can vouch for

 

[wolfy]

But 8 is typically describing external behavior rather than internal processing.

I thought enneagram was all about motivations... and 8, the need to be strong. While I don't agree completely with the OP, it seems a little self congratulatory ... I don't see how they conflict.

 

[prplchknz]

 

[Elfboy]

You're glamourising a bunch of negative gut instincts and defences (which is basically what enneagram is) and applying them to a cognitive function. That's not how it works.

no I'm not. gut instincts have a positive side to them too. 2s want to love and be loved by people, loving and being loved by people is a good thing. 3s want to be successful, being successful is a good thing. 5s seek wisdom, wisdom is a good thing. it's only when gut instincts and desires become obsessive and not focused in the right direction that they become bad.
the purpose of the Enneagram is not to learn your type so you can control/suppress it; it's to embrace your type and focus your desires in ways that will help you grow and go good in the world as opposed to being self destructive.

 

[Kierva]

ohai guise im a esfj 5w6

 

[Elfboy]

I thought enneagram was all about motivations... and 8, the need to be strong. While I don't agree completely with the OP, it seems a little self congratulatory ... I don't see how they conflict.

the need of 8s is control, strength is the means rather than the ends. being self congratulatory isn't the purpose here (can see how it came across that way, but 1) I'm a 7 and 2) being indirectly self congratulatory is not my style)

 

[011235813]

Nope. Whichever way you slice it, enneagram behaviours are a defence mechanism to specific fears. This is not to say that people can't learn to control or channel them wisely but they aren't inherently that way, they can take a good route or a bad route or just a plain "meh" route. 8s are definitely not intrinsically the way you describe them. You are attributing a range of behaviours you find attractive to a specific type and function, glorifying them both, and then conflating them uncritically.

Do you even understand Fi-doms? They have little to no desire to exert their influence over the environment. The desire for strength and independence are felt and expressed in such a deeply internal manner that there's usually no way observers are going to see it.

 

[wolfy]

the need of 8s is control, strength is the means rather than the ends. being self congratulatory isn't the purpose here (can see how it came across that way, but 1) I'm a 7 and 2) being indirectly self congratulatory is not my style)

That's right, I thought you preferred eight, you talk about that more. Oh... control, I relate to strength but not control. I think control and Fi don't mesh well.

 

[gromit]

That's right, I thought you preferred eight, you talk about that more. Oh... control, I relate to strength but not control. I think control and Fi don't mesh well.

Yes, I just don't want to BE controlled, but I don't want to control anyone else either.

 

[Elfboy]

That's right, I thought you preferred eight, you talk about that more. Oh... control, I relate to strength but not control. I think control and Fi don't mesh well.

I talk about 8s more because I find them more interesting.
Fi and controlling other people don't mesh well (I think I speak for a lot of NFPs when I say the thought is a bit sickening), but lots of Fi users share a strong desire for people not to control them like 8s do (everyone feels this somewhat, but with FPs it seems to be a little stronger, even if they don't always overtly express it)

 

[Totenkindly]

I would disagree. the Enneagram is a very internal classification system and the core desire of an 8 is control and autonomy, the latter being something an FP would most likely relate to strongly on a deep seated, gut level like an 8 (other types, INTPs for example, are averse to external control as well, but this aversion for FPs and 8s is much deeper down, it's kind hard to explain. ). desire for autonomy is much more intrinsically motivated that extrinsically

I think you're overthinking it.

The question is, really, "Do they look the same?"
The answer is, "No, they do not look the same."

This is why typically INFPs and ISFPs do not score themselves as Eights on the enneagram.
But ENFPs do.

I was talking about IFPs and EFPs

Remember that if you're going to talk about functions, then we're really thinking about "primaries."
EFP is far more Eight in appearance, but EFP is also Pe, not Ji, in terms of primary expression.

I thought enneagram was all about motivations... and 8, the need to be strong. While I don't agree completely with the OP, it seems a little self congratulatory ... I don't see how they conflict.

Maybe I should rephrase so that you'll get my point -- in terms of RECOGNIZING a type, the enneagram models all seem to be observable directly, as opposed to MBTI where half of the types are introverted types and you can only observe their secondary function but not their primary.

 

[Elfboy]

Yes, I just don't want to BE controlled, but I don't want to control anyone else either.

exactly, the difference is 8s are more willing to control others in order to prevent themselves from being controlled (the tendency to control others occurs when they feel threatened and have a fight instinct response to someone). the response is completely different, but the desire is the same, being left alone.

 

[Elfboy]

I think you're overthinking it.

The question is, really, "Do they look the same?"
The answer is, "No, they do not look the same."

no that way definitely not my question. they do not look the same. my question was really "do they share similar internal desires and motivations?"

Remember that if you're going to talk about functions, then we're really thinking about "primaries."
EFP is far more Eight in appearance, but EFP is also Pe, not Ji, in terms of primary expression.

I think the interaction of auxilary Fi and tertiary Te in EFPs also acts in a more 8-ish way than dominant Fi.

Maybe I should rephrase so that you'll get my point -- in terms of RECOGNIZING a type, the enneagram models all seem to be observable directly, as opposed to MBTI where half of the types are introverted types and you can only observe their secondary function but not their primary.

the opposite. MBTI is how you do things (via your cognitive functions). thus it is somewhat observable if you can spot "that was Ne" "that was Fi"; Enneagram is why you do things. there are observable similarities between many people of the same type, but there are people who show little to no external signs of their type.

 

[wolfy]

Yes, I just don't want to BE controlled, but I don't want to control anyone else either.

Yeah. Live and let live. Unless, you know...

I talk about 8s more because I find them more interesting.
Fi and controlling other people don't mesh well (I think I speak for a lot of NFPs when I say the thought is a bit sickening), but lots of Fi users share a strong desire for people not to control them like 8s do (everyone feels this somewhat, but with FPs it seems to be a little stronger, even if they don't always overtly express it)

From the descriptions it sounds like eight like to control their environment. I don't like the descriptions because I think they focus in behaviour too much. But, if eight is about control then I don't think Fi and eight mesh that well. Strength I can agree on.

Maybe I should rephrase so that you'll get my point -- in terms of RECOGNIZING a type, the enneagram models all seem to be observable directly, as opposed to MBTI where half of the types are introverted types and you can only observe their secondary function but not their primary.

I get what you're saying. I thought enneagram is all about motivations, so really it is indecipherable to the outsider, But, in order to make it a commodity and a conversational set-piece behaviour was included,