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  1. #51
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moiety View Post
    Lol That's not the point really. I know my type : 9w8 (strong 6 tendencies to be sure). I know I can't prove you guys of what I'm saying, because we each have our own understanding of both systems and I have no evidence (then again, neither does anyone else). I'm just posting to balance things out because I think there is a lot of misunderstanding surrounding the enneagram in particular.

    I remember hearing people tell me I couldn't be an 8, or that my Fi had to be less strong than my Ne....and I've seen all kinds of unscientific and, more importantly, irrational views concerning people that don't neatly fit into the systems.

    My own experience tells me that these two models are great helpers in mapping the psyche but that there are phenomenons (namely self-actualization and life experiences and instinctual predispositions and traumas) that heavily factor into all of this that are mostly NOT accounted for. I just dislike seeing so much misinformation going on, but I guess not much can be done. Oversimplification is the one thing standing in the way of TRULY getting something out of these systems.
    I think I've proven sufficiently that the Enneagram is the superior system. This is mostly due to the fact that the MBTI suffers from circular logic and oversimplification. Many many times since I've joined this forum, I've seen the MBTI fanboys/girls exclaim in disbelief that their result on a pure functions test did not quite match their MBTI type. And then, of course, they blame the functions test and not the MBTI, and that's why I call them fanboys/girls.

    The MBTI is also terribly oversimplified with it's mere 16 boxes. The Riso Enneagram offers 18X9 boxes. And the Enneagram requires no tricky formula to determine your type. The MBTI profile descriptions are kept vague so they can be "made to fit." Whereas the Enneagram descriptions often go into excruciating detail about each type.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #52
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Did you just say the eneagram is the better system cause the mbti suffers from oversimplification ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #53
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Did you just say the eneagram is the better system cause the mbti suffers from oversimplification ?
    Uh, yeah, but not for just that one reason. It's that a pure Jungian functions test tells a different story. There was an INTJ here who recently scored Ti highest on a functions test. I've seen this kind of thing happen before. In the light of the 2-dimensional MBTI's oversimplification of personality, I just don't see it as being such a big mystery.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #54
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say one system is superior to the other. It's all a matter of why one is using the system to begin with. I think both systems aren't great because you can tell what other people are all about but because they are great aids to self-inquiry.

    I will say I feel enneagram is a greater help as far as self-actualization is concerned....but only if you are serious about this stuff. That might mean investigating some seemingly esoteric territory.

    All I can say is that in the past months I've understood Jung's fascination with different esoteric/unscientific disciplines and have gained much more respect for INFJ "cuckoo heads" ( :P ) and "mystics". I finally got Ni because I've experienced it. And I've understood the weird instinctual distinctions made in the enneagram. I think the enneagram in particular needs a complementary contemplative practice of some kind to truly get something out of it. I guess that is valid for all honest self-inquiry. There might be a certain tendency with MBTI to stick to a lot of theory and incorporating it into a psychological model of society and other people in general. As in, in a way the fact I'm an ENFP explains a lot about me but it doesn't. Cognitive functions are particular tools that one likes to use. But to get into identity, whys, motivations, growth, etc....the enneagram can be much better if used correctly.

  5. #55
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I thought the eneagram was about puttin g numbers on people. That seems even more oversimplified than mbti to me at first glance
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #56
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Enneagram purported self-actualisation levels are geared towards spirituality as defined by religion. I've completely rejected that aspect since it doesn't fit into my worldview.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I thought the eneagram was about puttin g numbers on people. That seems even more oversimplified than mbti to me at first glance
    Consider something Moiety said above your post: "I will say I feel enneagram is a greater help as far as self-actualization is concerned....but only if you are serious about this stuff." That is another viewpoint I didn't mention originally, but I've stated it here so many times it begins to feel redundant. The Enneagram is a spiritual system - there's no question about that. It was born in a spiritual context. If people reduce it to a number-labeling personality system, that's their own fault, and their own loss.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #58
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Consider something Moiety said above your post: "I will say I feel enneagram is a greater help as far as self-actualization is concerned....but only if you are serious about this stuff." That is another viewpoint I didn't mention originally, but I've stated it here so many times it begins to feel redundant. The Enneagram is a spiritual system - there's no question about that. It was born in a spiritual context. If people reduce it to a number-labeling personality system, that's their own fault, and their own loss.
    Right. As if religion should be the guide for everyone. NOT.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Enneagram purported self-actualisation levels are geared towards spirituality as defined by religion. I've completely rejected that aspect since it doesn't fit into my worldview.
    The Enneagram is about spiritual enlightenment, not really self-actualization which is a Western psychological term (Maslow). We know the MBTI is definitely of Occidental European origin. But the Enneagram came out of Russia with it's highly mystical cultural tradition (circa early 1900s). Once you delve into The Fourth Way in any depth, you find that the Enneagram came from some really weird stuff.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #60
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Right. As if religion should be the guide for everyone. NOT.
    Religion and mysticism are not the same thing.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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