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  1. #11
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    ohai guise im a esfj 5w6
    C#2-C#5-F#5
    3 octaves, 2 notes and 1 semitone
    Supported range: F#2-F#4-C#5

  2. #12
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I thought enneagram was all about motivations... and 8, the need to be strong. While I don't agree completely with the OP, it seems a little self congratulatory ... I don't see how they conflict.
    the need of 8s is control, strength is the means rather than the ends. being self congratulatory isn't the purpose here (can see how it came across that way, but 1) I'm a 7 and 2) being indirectly self congratulatory is not my style)
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  3. #13
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    Nope. Whichever way you slice it, enneagram behaviours are a defence mechanism to specific fears. This is not to say that people can't learn to control or channel them wisely but they aren't inherently that way, they can take a good route or a bad route or just a plain "meh" route. 8s are definitely not intrinsically the way you describe them. You are attributing a range of behaviours you find attractive to a specific type and function, glorifying them both, and then conflating them uncritically.

    Do you even understand Fi-doms? They have little to no desire to exert their influence over the environment. The desire for strength and independence are felt and expressed in such a deeply internal manner that there's usually no way observers are going to see it.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    the need of 8s is control, strength is the means rather than the ends. being self congratulatory isn't the purpose here (can see how it came across that way, but 1) I'm a 7 and 2) being indirectly self congratulatory is not my style)
    That's right, I thought you preferred eight, you talk about that more. Oh... control, I relate to strength but not control. I think control and Fi don't mesh well.

  5. #15
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    That's right, I thought you preferred eight, you talk about that more. Oh... control, I relate to strength but not control. I think control and Fi don't mesh well.
    Yes, I just don't want to BE controlled, but I don't want to control anyone else either.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  6. #16
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    That's right, I thought you preferred eight, you talk about that more. Oh... control, I relate to strength but not control. I think control and Fi don't mesh well.
    I talk about 8s more because I find them more interesting.
    Fi and controlling other people don't mesh well (I think I speak for a lot of NFPs when I say the thought is a bit sickening), but lots of Fi users share a strong desire for people not to control them like 8s do (everyone feels this somewhat, but with FPs it seems to be a little stronger, even if they don't always overtly express it)
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I would disagree. the Enneagram is a very internal classification system and the core desire of an 8 is control and autonomy, the latter being something an FP would most likely relate to strongly on a deep seated, gut level like an 8 (other types, INTPs for example, are averse to external control as well, but this aversion for FPs and 8s is much deeper down, it's kind hard to explain. ). desire for autonomy is much more intrinsically motivated that extrinsically
    I think you're overthinking it.

    The question is, really, "Do they look the same?"
    The answer is, "No, they do not look the same."

    This is why typically INFPs and ISFPs do not score themselves as Eights on the enneagram.
    But ENFPs do.

    I was talking about IFPs and EFPs
    Remember that if you're going to talk about functions, then we're really thinking about "primaries."
    EFP is far more Eight in appearance, but EFP is also Pe, not Ji, in terms of primary expression.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I thought enneagram was all about motivations... and 8, the need to be strong. While I don't agree completely with the OP, it seems a little self congratulatory ... I don't see how they conflict.
    Maybe I should rephrase so that you'll get my point -- in terms of RECOGNIZING a type, the enneagram models all seem to be observable directly, as opposed to MBTI where half of the types are introverted types and you can only observe their secondary function but not their primary.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Yes, I just don't want to BE controlled, but I don't want to control anyone else either.
    exactly, the difference is 8s are more willing to control others in order to prevent themselves from being controlled (the tendency to control others occurs when they feel threatened and have a fight instinct response to someone). the response is completely different, but the desire is the same, being left alone.
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  9. #19
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think you're overthinking it.

    The question is, really, "Do they look the same?"
    The answer is, "No, they do not look the same."
    no that way definitely not my question. they do not look the same. my question was really "do they share similar internal desires and motivations?"

    Remember that if you're going to talk about functions, then we're really thinking about "primaries."
    EFP is far more Eight in appearance, but EFP is also Pe, not Ji, in terms of primary expression.
    I think the interaction of auxilary Fi and tertiary Te in EFPs also acts in a more 8-ish way than dominant Fi.


    Maybe I should rephrase so that you'll get my point -- in terms of RECOGNIZING a type, the enneagram models all seem to be observable directly, as opposed to MBTI where half of the types are introverted types and you can only observe their secondary function but not their primary.
    the opposite. MBTI is how you do things (via your cognitive functions). thus it is somewhat observable if you can spot "that was Ne" "that was Fi"; Enneagram is why you do things. there are observable similarities between many people of the same type, but there are people who show little to no external signs of their type.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Yes, I just don't want to BE controlled, but I don't want to control anyone else either.
    Yeah. Live and let live. Unless, you know...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I talk about 8s more because I find them more interesting.
    Fi and controlling other people don't mesh well (I think I speak for a lot of NFPs when I say the thought is a bit sickening), but lots of Fi users share a strong desire for people not to control them like 8s do (everyone feels this somewhat, but with FPs it seems to be a little stronger, even if they don't always overtly express it)
    From the descriptions it sounds like eight like to control their environment. I don't like the descriptions because I think they focus in behaviour too much. But, if eight is about control then I don't think Fi and eight mesh that well. Strength I can agree on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Maybe I should rephrase so that you'll get my point -- in terms of RECOGNIZING a type, the enneagram models all seem to be observable directly, as opposed to MBTI where half of the types are introverted types and you can only observe their secondary function but not their primary.
    I get what you're saying. I thought enneagram is all about motivations, so really it is indecipherable to the outsider, But, in order to make it a commodity and a conversational set-piece behaviour was included,

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