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  1. #11
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    I have to agree with the PP. It doesn't go away until you do something about it. I was married for a long time, I have children, and I've observed a lot. It wasn't until my marriage ended that I learned that I have to stop shielding myself from life. I led the kind of life where I built up a lot of walls to keep things or people from interfering or demanding too much of my energy. I got in a jam where I had to make choices and act on them or stay where I was. I'm doing all kinds of things that I'd never thought I'd do...move across the country, be a single parent, go back to college, pursue a career in science, etc.

    It's been really scary, too. I seriously jumped in the deep end this past year with all the changes. But despite it all being really overwhelming at times, I'm getting to a point where I feel alive. Like I'm waking up from a long (drugged) sleep. If I let my fear of being overwhelmed get in the way, I'd still be stuck observing life in that dream state. Just detached, aloof, and pretty much dead above ground. I'm still scared even now but I'll never let my fear stand in my way again.

    I can't believe I wrote that....

  2. #12
    Member Bamboozle's Avatar
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    Pretty much going to agree with everything @VagrantFarce said. I think that's exactly it. It all resonated but this bit particularly—

    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce
    Actively reach out and place your stakes in the world emotionally.
    That's the scary bit. For me, though, I think it's not just emotionally. It's putting anything out there. It's almost like I try my hardest to pretend I'm not present at any moment. When I was younger, I had myself partly convinced that people wouldn't see me if I sat still enough. I don't think it anymore, but I kind of still feel like that. I want to be able to put things out in the world when I'm ready and when I feel up to it. But I'm starting to recognise that that's not going to be good enough.

    Thanks for sharing, VagrantFarce.

    ETA:
    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair
    I was wondering what a 5 would need to do to grow, and I came up with this:

    - Establish a good sleep habit
    - Become proficient in important skills
    - Take care of their body
    - Connect with other people
    - Know when to snap back to reality and when to think
    - Become active and engaged in important activities

    This is just what I think I should be working on, I don't know how much that applies to other 5s.
    Just to clarify my stance, I think it's not just everyday things that 5s need to improve on—which is what you seem to be suggesting. I think it's the entire 5 perspective on life that can be problematic (not always, though). I think that's what @FunnyDigestion and @VagrantFarce are getting at too.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Richardsen's Avatar
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    I see this as a huge fear of being empty... But I don't see this as a 7ish way...
    Maybe a "core" emptines .
    Im not a 5 btw... But I think that maybe Im right
    or not???


    6w5(sw5w4) Sx/Sp
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    "Some people never go crazy... What truly horrible lives they must lead"- Charles Bukowski


  4. #14
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Learn to be receptive to life and love, instead of constantly holding it back. Actively reach out and place your stakes in the world emotionally. Suddenly, you have the strength to do anything, instead of reserving it for some things.
    I wouldn't call it emotional stakes, but for me it involves an element of risk-taking, facing the possibility of failure. Doing nothing or not trying, however, is a guarantee of failure. Yes, I have the drive to perfect, too, but I have also learned what is good enough - usually much more than good enough, if not quite perfect. "Enough" is defined by whether it gets the job done, and "the job" is my goal, the thing I want to happen. If I don't engage with the world, I will never make anything happen. The drive to do that, however, is probably related to J/P as well as ennea/stackings.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #15
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies everyone, very inspirational.

    http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/5growth.asp

    I think this nailed it perfectly. Can't believe I didn't notice it before.

    Personal Growth Recommendations
    for Enneagram Type Fives

    Learn to notice when your thinking and speculating takes you out of the immediacy of your experience. Your mental capacities can be an extraordinary gift, but only can also be a trap when you use them to retreat from contact with yourself and others. Stay connected with your physicality.

    You tend to be extremely intense and so high-strung that you find it difficult to relax and unwind. Make an effort to learn to calm down in a healthy way, without drugs or alcohol. Exercising or using biofeedback techniques will help channel some of your tremendous nervous energy. Meditation, jogging, yoga, and dancing are especially helpful for your type.

    You see many possibilities but often do not know how to choose among them or judge which is more or less important. When you are caught in your fixation, a sense of perspective can be missing, and with it the ability to make accurate assessments. At such time, it can be helpful to get the advice of someone whose judgment you trust while you are gaining perspective on your situation. Doing this can also help you trust someone else, a difficulty for your type.

    Notice when you are getting intensely involved in projects that do not necessarily support your self-esteem, confidence, or life situation. It is possible to follow many different fascinating subjects, games, and pastimes, but they can become huge distractions from what you know really need to do. Decisive action will bring more confidence than learning more facts or acquiring more unrelated skills.

    Fives tend to find it difficult to trust people, to open up to them emotionally, or to make themselves accessible in various ways. Their awareness of potential problems in relationships may tend to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is important to remember that having conflicts with others is not unusual and that the healthy thing is to work them out rather than reject attachments with people by withdrawing into isolation. Having one or two intimate friends whom you trust enough to have conflicts with will enrich your life greatly.
    I wish I had seen this and known I was an E5 years ago.
    5 3 9

  6. #16
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    The thing is that it never says "why," it just says to do it, which feels pretty empty and kind of "off," yeah. So it sounds as if they're saying, "Look, just...stop being 5-ish. That's the way to grow." Maybe written by someone who doesn't "get" 5s.

    Edit: Talking about OP, not the post above with the link.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  7. #17
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    I'm a 5, just don't tale everything so seriously and enjoy yourself. Even if you are alone try to self nurture yourself like going for a peaceful walk, or grabbing a cofeee. I find most people worry about the dumbest things and it's impossible to live by everybody expectations. I've realized that I don't need other people to make me happy.

  8. #18
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    I'm a 5, just don't tale everything so seriously and enjoy yourself. Even if you are alone try to self nurture yourself like going for a peaceful walk, or grabbing a cofeee. I find most people worry about the dumbest things and it's impossible to live by everybody expectations. I've realized that I don't need other people to make me happy.
    Isn't part of 5s problem that they want to be too independent? The article above mentions that having just a few very close friends will help out 5s greatly. I could see what you mean if you're saying that you don't need a huge amount of people to make you happy, I feel that one.

    I like being relaxed, but it is challenging. One moment I will be completely calm, then I'll drift off into my head and become super tense over nothing, then shake it off. I'm not sure if that's specific to this type, but I'm always tense, and it makes it hard to perform (like, I mess up when I show people something I've learned on piano and sometimes guitar because my arms just tense up and stop working smoothly).

    I'd like to know when 5s traits work best? I've been studying lately for exams, and I'm finding that I can learn one subject in depth while worrying about another subject, so I'm trying to use that anxiety to study each subject in depth, maybe if I could artificially control that anxiety by applying stress elsewhere in my life. When is it good to be disconnected? When is it good to sit back and observe?
    5 3 9

  9. #19
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    for me i change the terms of the debate.

    reality or unreality is less important than introversion and extroversion (reality testing!). i think making shit, interacting, being present, and being a body are the keys to e5 growth.

    i think the intense mental energy of a e5 type can just pull up all your awareness out of your body into your mind (because, clearly, it has the furthest reaches! to possibilities! infinite contexts!). but that draws you out of your instinctive center, e8 turns into your shadow, and to cope with your lack of resources and flexibility (because your mind keeps borrowing currency against your heart and body), you just get more fickle and tempted to have fun and play with more possibilities and live in avoidance rather than come down and deal with your life. and you also get trapped in the riddles of the mind and worry that you don't have all solutions and that you are vulnerable in various situations that you can imagine.

    this overreliance on the mind leads to the other side of the equation. that mental energy that generates so much excitability leads to inflexibility when you refuse to let go of those possibilities and be here now and say okay, act! this inflexibility and overreliance creates also creates a discomfort and distrust in just being a body, an instinctive body (losing access tobboth all of the intelligence that we forget is inscribed in the body and to the different power we have access to when we are grounded, fully present, and act assertively and learn from our actions). because, well, we haven't spent much time there and don't know how to operate fluidly there and don't know how to move back and forth because our minds keep hijacking our awareness into longer strings of possibilities and more complex contexts.

    so to get better, do yoga, meditate, go for walks, and just say no ideas. at least for a bit of time each day. doing this will break many of the cycles that lead to more extreme imbalances. i work on my thesis for 8 hours a day at the library and then i leave and i see people i know and i feel like i am so far away from my body and the moment that my 7 second radio delay makes me unable to even muster a response before we're both in the past. i feel like i'm in the basement ten stories down, and someone is knocking on the door at ground level, and i can't answer the door in time. but i know that balance is to be found in creating spaces of silence and using those moments to shift attention and restore awareness and keep working on building a more integrated, consistently available, resourceful and fluid awareness. really that's the premise of all enlightenment practices. that and realizing that in doing so, your own identifications with others, community, the world, etc, get more expansive.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    I filled the fridge (to a level that transcends the haphazard or immediately required) and updated my medicine cabinet today...it takes energy to look after myself, it really does. The small comforts in life aren't my strong suit.

    I spend more time in the world these days, but I treat myself as more of guinea pig still...looking what I can learn from experiences, how I react, how people react, what experiences might generate interesting stuff.

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