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  1. #1
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Default A difficult question for 4's

    Have you had any luck not identifying yourself with your emotions?
    How do you do this? What tips or experiences can you offer up that has helped you personally?
    (Your awesome if you do!)

    Also, what are your experiences when dealing with a creative outlet. Do you have one? I have read that 4's experience tremendous growth when acting intuitive and spontaneous in the moment of creating art (not to be confused with feelings of art) and that it is in doing this that the 4 will come the closest to who they really are, and build a better identity. What do you think?

    I also read in one of the books that very healthy 4's do indeed have a creative outlet where their take on the human condition is expressed, that we are apparently really fucking awesome at this. BUt it also mentioned that in lower levels of health 4's tend to see themselves as THE work of art. I found that interesting. (I tend to do this). Ofcourse it goes back to leaving self consciousness out of the equation and acting on a moment of true inspiration.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  2. #2
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I have had moments of not identifying with my emotions. It's mostly in the form of replacing negative inner dialogue with positive, more realistic inner dialogue backed with facts. Sustaining that so it becomes habit is not something I've had success with.

    The creative outlet has been tricky because it often becomes your identity & then you tack on feelings of shame to it, and it becomes something that is a burden, maybe even something you avoid, because you cannot reach your fantasy ideal. Of course, this creates a cycle where you can't get better because you don't practice & you won't practice because you feel bad about the results. It's simply easier to fantasize about doing something than doing it, but then the ideal becomes increasingly higher & impossible. 4s also often wait for that inspiration to hit in the form of a mood, which is a problem also. Instead, they need to integrate 1 qualities of structure to motivate them to create regularly, not just when the odd mood hits.

    This also might be the average levels where you over-identify with your "art", so that you can't separate your feelings about it from yourself. It can be a hard cycle to break. You're not good enough to make the art you want, and the art you can make is not good enough to represent how you feel.

    Anyhow, when I was younger, I drew a lot. Then I wrote bad poetry & short stories. Sometimes I still do those, but I've avoided them in recent years because I feel I've stagnated & I hate facing it. I've done graphic design for a living, but then I felt mediocre about my skills & lost the joy in it (this may be more related to the distaste for the business aspect though). I also use my dress & home decoration as outlets of creativity. Those are the easiest & probably why 4s make themselves their art.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #3
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    I usually don't identify with my emotions when in social situations. I'm very shy, so my emotions are constantly making it impossible for me to talk, out of fear of being criticized by others, while my conscious mind is thinking how ridiculous these thoughts are and is rather confident.

    My creative outlet is basically whenever I'm alone and have spare time. Mainly, it's when I'm listening to music, and I think up plots to video games or books or movies I hope to make one day. I also write out the plots to these games, which is another outlet of mine. Years ago, another outlet was playing with Legos, where I had this huge, long, complex plot that I knew from the beginning how it would end, but always stretched it out in various ways so I would never have to reach the end and stop playing (though my sets usually lasted for at least a year before I got to the end of the plot, and I destroyed my set and built a new one). As for making myself the art, I guess I do because, for example, when I played with Legos, I would always have a character that represented me, and I was the protagonist. When I think up plots to books or movies, I always model the main character off of myself. Sometimes, when imagining cutscenes in video games I plan to make, I act out the roles of the characters. I never actually make my physical self the physical art.

  4. #4
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    My logic and my emotions often tell me different things. I value my emotions, but as with my logic, I understand that there ARE bad ways of reacting. I often tell myself to let my ego go, as that seems to be the major root of my anxieties. Not feeling special, having problems accepting that someone is better than you, feeling out of place... these things only happen when you have a really strong sense of self. It's almost against our nature to let go of the self, but I think it's an important lesson to learn, at least in social situations.

    As with the stuff on creative outlets, I really don't have a purely creative outlet. Honestly, that's haiku thread is the closest thing I have to a creative outlet . It's been a quest of mine to find a creative outlet where I can be plain impulsive and imaginative, leaving any form of lasting thought behind. It's just kinda hard when you don't have any real motor skills lol. Maybe I'll start free writing poetry.
    Chimera of Filth

    A gruesome beast with dripping flesh
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    My throbbing heart it gnawed apart
    It stalks and hunts me through mirrors

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    Meditation, looking at the reasons for your feelings. More specifically, meditating when you want to detach from the emotion. It can become habit.

    My creative outlets are programming and thinking, and strategy games, I'm able to focus well on it, and get somewhat obsessive.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I have had moments of not identifying with my emotions. It's mostly in the form of replacing negative inner dialogue with positive, more realistic inner dialogue backed with facts. Sustaining that so it becomes habit is not something I've had success with.
    This is a good tip. I have used inner dialogues to counter extreme fits of anxiety or being upset, usually when someone does something that I view as an attack. So I think part of me does understand the healing or growth benefit. But I am doing this to align - The reality of the situation with my subjective perception. But when it comes to the constant backdrop of my inner dialogue (emotionally driven), its as though there is nothing to align with. Its all an internal process. THere is not objective external model to go off of. Since I can't be in anothers head and view how a more objective, thought driven internal dialogue might be created, its as though I have no point of reference. This is worded poorly, so apologies if it makes no sense! =D
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  7. #7
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireShield98 View Post
    I usually don't identify with my emotions when in social situations. I'm very shy, so my emotions are constantly making it impossible for me to talk, out of fear of being criticized by others, while my conscious mind is thinking how ridiculous these thoughts are and is rather confident.
    This is good. I am similar, in *most* of my socializing I do not truly have the time to reflect on my feelings about it until later. So maybe I need to consider this angle more, and the processes my mind undergoes while socializing and seperating the feelings.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  8. #8
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    My logic and my emotions often tell me different things. I value my emotions, but as with my logic, I understand that there ARE bad ways of reacting. I often tell myself to let my ego go, as that seems to be the major root of my anxieties. Not feeling special, having problems accepting that someone is better than you, feeling out of place... these things only happen when you have a really strong sense of self. It's almost against our nature to let go of the self, but I think it's an important lesson to learn, at least in social situations.
    Absolutely agree. THis is surely at the heart of the matter.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  9. #9
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdk View Post
    Meditation, looking at the reasons for your feelings. More specifically, meditating when you want to detach from the emotion. It can become habit.

    My creative outlets are programming and thinking, and strategy games, I'm able to focus well on it, and get somewhat obsessive.
    Yes, I have tried meditation many times, and plan to keep trying. I really do suck at it though, quieting the mind has always been so friggen hard for me! I've read almost all of Depak Chopras books, and totally think there is something to this.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  10. #10
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    I tell you, fellow 4's, the other problem I've had is learning how to take action without consulting how I feel about it. Many of my problems in life go back to only doing what I feel like doing, and obviously this is a recipe for disaster. But this is something I have been able to improve on, because again.. I see how I need to align my actions with the external reality. "Don't go to work today and I might get fired." "Don't send that christmas card and I'll be on someones shit list" haha.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

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