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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Your music taste has nothing to do with your type, that's just being silly.
    I disagree. Music taste has a lot to do with type. I suspect you're not a musician, so you don't really know the nuances of different music styles. It goes much, much deeper than simple "preference". Especially for 4's.


    Why do you enjoy it? That's more important. It's far more common to attribute this trait to 5s rather than 4s by the way, out of a need to "recharge".[/QUOTE]

    The why has a lot to do with substance abuse. The drugs keep me company!

    I feel like I'm subverted by the 3 wing. I keep trying to appease others and put forth a flashy image, that while useful on a shallow level ends up stabbing me in the back. I think true 4w3's will realize this endless split personality torture that we deal with. Sure, we can convince others with our silver tongue, but we are betraying them because we're employing a superficial charisma that is empowered by the 4's uncanny intuition.

    To stay on topic, 3w4's are far less risky than 4w3's. The 3 will succeed admirably through sheer charm and purity of purpose to "sell" himself. He is flawless in this regard. 4w3's will bring a certain uncertainty that can either thrill his audience, or scare them. And I think 4w3's have a harsher *split* in their personalities that is palpable if one gets to know them well.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Here's one:

    I know a young lady who is very self-assertive - perhaps her primary trait - to the point of egotistic and even bordering on narcissistic. We are coworkers, and she spends much of her time elaborating on details about herself and her life, mostly framed in a self-flattering way (and she "embraces" the weaknesses she chooses to broadcast). She is very proud of certain attributes of herself and talks about them frequently. She is typically condescending and not very social with those below her position status, but she is warm and interactive with higher-ups. When stressed, she gets very directive, and when highly stressed, she becomes goofy and childlike. On the positive side, she is individualistic and entertaining. She has a "dark" streak to her: she likes metal music, went through a goth phase, and play-violence.

    She seems to vibe 4w3, but her primary motive seems to be being seen as valuable and worthwhile by those around her, not being unique.
    What's interesting (*cough*) to me is that many people who want to win the approval of others haven't realized that narcissism, bragging, and hogging the spotlight aren't traits that other people approve of. Most people would just want you to shut the hell up when you prattle on and aren't particularly impressed by that stuff at all.

    Of course, all of us "grasp at straws" when we're feeling unhealthy or vulnerable in a quest to satiate our egos.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhimsyGirl View Post
    As you can tell, Type Threes place an emphasis on action. This makes Type Three one of the most engaging types in the Enneagram, if only because they are constantly striving to improve themselves. Everyone possesses a Freudian ego ideal, but Type Threes are fixated on fulfilling that ego ideal through their appearance. This ego ideal is essentially unattainable, which leads the Type Three on a neverending quest for personal improvement. Threes may also fear that they have no inner value, which leads them to fill the gap with an idealized image.
    spot on, in my opinion

  3. #33
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhimsyGirl View Post
    sounds like an unhealthy 3w4 to me--what else, besides that whole goth, unique front vibes 4w3? sounds like u don't think much of her, however


    Oh, you are correct. She is my newly-hired, young (my age), quasi-educated supervisor and I find her extremely frustrating. She is lazy, but works hard when management is watching! Consequently they believe she's efficient, when the reality is she pushes the vast majority of her duties off on others. She's also quick to take credit for her department's successes, yet does not thank or compliment others, and does little to encourage harmony. She's very vocal about her knowledge and skills, but they are curiously lacking when she is required to do certain tasks. She is often icy and asocial, and speaks down to the others in the department, though many of us have been there longer and have completed formal degrees. My impression - and the belief of many at the workplace - is that she got the job by being a personal favorite of someone in the corporate office.

    To be fair, she seems like an interesting person, and I rather like her when I don't have to work under her supervision. She clearly has a Pe train of thought and I would not be surprised if she also tested ExFP, because it seems to fit her "baseline" personality. She is certainly creative and spontaneous, and she seems like she would be fun as a friend.

    Admittedly I have taken her on as a sort of "arch-enemy" in my life... it's because she is so disrespectful to myself and others at work. There's a lot of BS in the world but that just drives me absolutely crazy. I have a strong ego too xP

    " highly stressed, she becomes goofy and childlike." this strikes me as very interesting, because the point of INTEGRATION for a 3 is 6, which is what this sounds like. But i've seen it before with 3's and it could just be more to maintain a likeable image wen they're scared of failing...
    I don't think she becomes like a healthy 6 when stressed... more escapist like an unhealthy 7, if anything... I see her having 3's stress/growth points of 9 and 6 better than 4's of 1 and 2. It's just that she doesn't have that sense of work the other 3s I've known have had. Maybe it's that she's an EP 3 and I'm a 6 so I'm coming at it from the perspective of someone who has a pretty strong work ethic as a facet of community duty. I'm not sure :/

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    What's interesting (*cough*) to me is that many people who want to win the approval of others haven't realized that narcissism, bragging, and hogging the spotlight aren't traits that other people approve of. Most people would just want you to shut the hell up when you prattle on and aren't particularly impressed by that stuff at all.
    God, you'd think so. Sadly many of our highest-tier administrators seem to find her cute and admirable - so competent and so young! THEY don't have to work with her.


    But honestly I don't know how long she's going to keep this job, because the failures are starting to show - cracks in the facade. That's what I don't understand... it's such a short-term strategy. And the other 3s I know IRL seem to be more concerned with working hard not just because it gets them somewhere, but because it's a reflection on themselves. She just seems to put the mask on when someone "important" is around.

    Of course, all of us "grasp at straws" when we're feeling unhealthy or vulnerable in a quest to satiate our egos.
    So true :/

  4. #34
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    This song always reminded me of 4w3

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TXqSJ9qDQ8&feature=related"].[/YOUTUBE]
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  5. #35
    Senior Member Boo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    A 4w3 will have to work through their feelings before they can do anything else. A 3w4 can much more easily put emotions aside to do what needs to be done. Also, core 4's are highly drawn to personality systems, psychology, etc.. to figure themselves out. "If I introspect enough and develop enough self knowledge, I can form a strong identity and rejoin reality".. core 3's DO NOT have this hang up. They are far more focused on getting shit done, achiving, than dilly-dallying around in stuff like this. They might do it for a little insight, but I haven't ever met one take it on like a personal religion. Core 4's find self actualization to be their religion.
    Ughhh now this makes me feel like a 4w3. I can't tell if I'm emotional because I'm a whiny teenager or because I'm growing into my true self.
    Does it help compare yourself to how you were as a young child?
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    — Dr. Seuss

  6. #36
    Junior Member pastabomber's Avatar
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    I can pretty much confirm I am not a 3 after reading this~

  7. #37
    Junior Member IluvHSJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burger King View Post
    A 4w3 can be very similar to this too. That is, trying to improve to fulfill an idealized self-image, to be successful, desirable, special, acquire power, acquire status, etc. The uniqueness that a 4 strives for can overlap with many of those things. However, the biggest disparity I see within myself compared to 3w4s is the inconsistency and perhaps self awareness (probably leads to self-consciousness). I feel like the 3 wing adds the social element, but the 4, since tied to feelings, and since feelings are tied to identity, is always up and down. As a core 4, emotions are always dragging me around, questioning every social action I take, looking for authenticity, rejecting, and cultivating certain traits. That's why when we feel that we've given the wrong impression, we withdraw, rather easily.

    With that said, I'm a little bothered by some of the explanations of this type. The descriptions I've read of the type describe a sort of a flashy extroverted type. Personally, I don't like to display my emotions for everyone to see. I'm ashamed to show emotions. I've read a post somewhere that attributed this to the 3 wing. Much of this drama and diva behavior that is described comes out alone (in fantasies) or amongst close family members. I do not like making a scene in public or amongst colleagues, or even amongst friends. Also, the introversion to extroversion description sounds overstated. I alternate between aloofness/cold and being sociable/charming, not introversion and extroversion. They make it seem like all 4w3s are extroverts and all 4w5s are introverts. Anyways, just thought I'd put it out there, from the perspective of an infp.
    Thanks for sharing. I am an isfp who through more reading and reflecting has decided that I was a 4w3 all along. I had thought I was 4w5 based on the descriptions, for the past 2 yrs! I thought i was more contemplative than ambitious, but now i can see the more hidden competitive/self-improving ways my 3 wings compels me to think/behave.

    I also don't become a diva in public. I keep my feelings underwraps a lot which is what I learned a sp 4 is prone to do. But maybe my 3 wing also has had a strong influence. I do not wanna be seen as out of control or crazy or disrespectful, so I usually hold in my intense feelings until I explode in my own private room or in front of family. But lately I try to hide it from my family mainly cuz I dont want to drag them down like I had in the past.

    I hope I can find some positive 4w3 descriptions one day. I feel like life has been so tough already, so the sad endings on some 4w3 descriptions, just makes me feel scared of my future lol.
    "..being human is being always directed, and pointing to something or someone other than oneself: to a meaning to fulfill or another human being to encounter, a cause to serve or a person to love."
    -Viktor Frankl

    ISFP 4w5 sp/sx (was mistyped as ENFJ for a long time )

  8. #38
    Senior Member HBIC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Try to consider which one sits better with you on its own - that can be your core type.

    They're both emotional types, in that their fixations emerge from their heart and result in a need to create some sort of image for themselves.

    • For 3s, the issue is a need for admiration - they want to feel like they're the best, and so they construct their images to make them seem like they're accomplished and successful and admirable people.
    • For 4s, the issue is a need for romanticism - they want to feel special and elevate their emotions, often to the point of drama or tragedy.


    Considering this, I would contend that 3s are more malleable to what others expect of them, whereas 4s are more likely to follow the beat of their own drummer. In other words, 4s more easily dismiss the feelings of others in favor of their own, whereas 3s are constantly adapting to what others expect of them.

    Does that seem accurate?
    That's a good difference to me, I hadn't grasp it before. Admiration vs Romantism.

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