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  1. #1
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Default Any 9 experts around here?

    So I've just changed my enneatype, my instinctual variant, and my MBTI type, so I'm feeling a bit disoriented right now. I need to find out how this new combination can work (or if it can).

    Here's my big issue: All the descriptions I read of type 9 make them seem like they have no sense of self and are too willing to go along with what others want, ignoring their own needs. Do all 9's have trouble voicing their opinions and objections, or saying "no" when they don't want to do something? Can the presence of Fi and Sx have an impact on this tendency, making a 9 more aware of her own needs and desires, and less willing to compromise them?

    Another thing: Unlike most 9's, I become more reflective and introspective when I'm unhealthy, not less. Could a Fi-Si loop cause a 9 to become extremely introspective and brooding?
    Last edited by Patches; 07-06-2012 at 06:41 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I can speak on this as a 4-5-9, if it's helpful: Doing stuff is just doing stuff. I don't care what stuff we do. I don't have a preference because it's all the same to me. It's not that I have no sense of self, it's just that one is as good as the other, within some bounds -- I don't like anything too noisy, for example, or if I do go, we should take separate cars because it might get too much for me and I'll really want to leave. Other than that -- want to go to a movie? Sure. Or go out to eat? That's good to. Or walk around the mall. We could do that.
    Occasionally I'm a little more enthusiastic about one thing than another, but within the bounds of anything I can actually tolerate, I don't care.
    This is different from the types for whom what they do defines them. But if you don't define yourself by externals, then one external is pretty much the same to you as another.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I can speak on this as a 4-5-9, if it's helpful: Doing stuff is just doing stuff. I don't care what stuff we do. I don't have a preference because it's all the same to me. It's not that I have no sense of self, it's just that one is as good as the other, within some bounds -- I don't like anything too noisy, for example, or if I do go, we should take separate cars because it might get too much for me and I'll really want to leave. Other than that -- want to go to a movie? Sure. Or go out to eat? That's good to. Or walk around the mall. We could do that.
    Occasionally I'm a little more enthusiastic about one thing than another, but within the bounds of anything I can actually tolerate, I don't care.
    This is different from the types for whom what they do defines them. But if you don't define yourself by externals, then one external is pretty much the same to you as another.
    Yeah, I'm the same way. It's not really that I'm afraid to voice my preferences, I often don't have preferences, so I'm all "Sure, whatever you feel like doing". But if someone asks me what I want to do and I actually do have a preference, I'll voice it. Why withhold my preference (for fear that the other person won't like it) when I don't necessarily know what the other person wants? If someone asks if want to go to MacDonalds and I have something else in mind, I should just say it because for all I know, the other person could like that idea even better. It's not going to cause conflict. That 9-ish fear of voicing their own opinions/needs just doesn't make much sense to me, and I don't seem to have it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I think sometimes the people who write enneagram descriptions of types other than their own don't really understand what they're seeing. Like, it doesn't occur to them that someone might not have a preference among even a couple dozen choices, it's all the same to them. I don't have fear, either, of saying what I do want if there is something I do want -- most of the time I get it, because in the other person's mind, they have had their own way so many times. It's hard to understand that it's no sacrifice; I don't do what the other person wants because they want it -- I do what they want because I don't care what we do. People read into "I don't care, what do you want to do" because they think it's being obliging, when it means literally what it says.

  5. #5
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post

    Another thing: Unlike most 9's, I become more reflective and introspective when I'm unhealthy, not less. Could a Fi-Si loop cause a 9 to become extremely introspective and brooding?
    You've been doing the same little dance I've done in the past: 4-5-4-9, etc...

    But what you say in your quote here is the major tip-off that you are not a nine. I was always looking at the exceptions for myself, too, but the levels of health, what you're like when you're unhealthy, that's what really matters, ime. Nines gloss it over, vanish, fours get tragic and deep.

  6. #6
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I think sometimes the people who write enneagram descriptions of types other than their own don't really understand what they're seeing. Like, it doesn't occur to them that someone might not have a preference among even a couple dozen choices, it's all the same to them. I don't have fear, either, of saying what I do want if there is something I do want -- most of the time I get it, because in the other person's mind, they have had their own way so many times. It's hard to understand that it's no sacrifice; I don't do what the other person wants because they want it -- I do what they want because I don't care what we do. People read into "I don't care, what do you want to do" because they think it's being obliging, when it means literally what it says.
    Bingo!!! My husband has a hard time believing me that I usually don't really have a preference.

    He is certain that I'm afraid to voice my preference. I've explained this a number of times and it has sunk in a little bit, but he still doesn't quite believe me, haha.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    You've been doing the same little dance I've done in the past: 4-5-4-9, etc...

    But what you say in your quote here is the major tip-off that you are not a nine. I was always looking at the exceptions for myself, too, but the levels of health, what you're like when you're unhealthy, that's what really matters, ime. Nines gloss it over, vanish, fours get tragic and deep.
    That's what I thought. But I really don't want to be INFP 4w5, because that would put me right back where I started.

    I have now been every combination of INFP/INTP and each of the types in my tritype. (INFP 4w5, INFP 5w4, INTP 5w4, INTP 4w5, INTP 9w1, and INFP 9w1)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I get, "You're so easygoing!"
    and then in fairness I try to explain why actually that's not true at all ... for the time when they come up against a "Hell no, no way."

  9. #9
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    9(w1) is second strongest in my tritype I believe, and I had an e9 friend for at least 3 years. So I hope I can say at least something?

    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    Here's my big issue: All the descriptions I read of type 9 make them seem like they have no sense of self and are too willing to go along with what others want, ignoring their own needs. Do all 9's have trouble voicing their opinions and objections, or saying "no" when they don't want to do something? Can the presence of Fi and Sx have an impact on this tendency, making a 9 more aware of her own needs and desires, and less willing to compromise them?
    imo It's not necessarily that the sense of self is lacking, but rather that the sense of need is vague. Few things feel certainly urgent to a 9. The attitude that "everything will work out eventually" leads to the perception that it's alright to wait out this one thing at the moment. It then snowballs into putting many things off indefinitely, and by that time it may feel overwhelming enough to put it off even further.

    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    But if someone asks me what I want to do and I actually do have a preference, I'll voice it. Why withhold my preference (for fear that the other person won't like it) when I don't necessarily know what the other person wants? If someone asks if want to go to MacDonalds and I have something else in mind, I should just say it because for all I know, the other person could like that idea even better. It's not going to cause conflict. That 9-ish fear of voicing their own opinions/needs just doesn't make much sense to me, and I don't seem to have it.
    A 9 above all is concerned with his or her own sense of ease, comfort, autonomy, and familiarity. Simply put, a 9 does not want to be overly bothered. Conflict-avoidance is just a means to that end. It means

    - Less energy spent, thus more internal stability
    - Less tense or volatile atmosphere (external and internal), thus more comfort
    - Less dramatic change, thus more internal familiarity

    What the 9 might do is simply withdraw, mentally or physically, thus in reality she or he is only yielding on things that she or he has no real investment in. There is no need to defend a sphere that you are not residing in! Or, she or he may yield around others while secretly indulging him or her self when alone.

    On things that the 9 really cares for, you will be met with astonishing stubbornness and passive resistance. And when a 9 is really fed up with others interfering with his or her sense of comfort, he or she will either have an angry outburst or disconnect from them entirely.

    If a 9 has a preference and knows that stating it won't sully the atmosphere, he or she would be more outspoken.

    My 9 friend and I both had a fear that we would risk driving others away and ruining the atmosphere if we made a big fuss over things, or made a big scene out of something, or started something that ended up becoming a huge confrontation.

    We trusted each other though, so we were both upfront about things that bothered us or that we disagreed with/didn't want to do. It also helped that we knew which signs to look for.

    Another thing: Unlike most 9's, I become more reflective and introspective when I'm unhealthy, not less. Could a Fi-Si loop cause a 9 to become extremely introspective and brooding?
    It would take a lot of stress for a 9 to want to block so much out. Have you ever been stressed to such a degree?

  10. #10
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    That's what I thought. But I really don't want to be INFP 4w5, because that would put me right back where I started.

    I have now been every combination of INFP/INTP and each of the types in my tritype. (INFP 4w5, INFP 5w4, INTP 5w4, INTP 4w5, INTP 9w1, and INFP 9w1)
    Nah, it just means you're an infp and your first intuition tends to be right-on, but you don't like to end things so you keep taking in new information to keep it open. My latest is- am I really an sx/sp? Nah, I'm probably sp/sx- I've switched through those about twenty times. But the 4w5 infp is a for sure, no matter how many times I try to change it.

    You seemed pretty convinced about sp/so I thought.

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