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  1. #31
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I have a hard time believing a 5w4 would say they get along with everyone. Maybe I'm wrong, though. (and maybe 5w6/6w5 would feel less this way?) Also, you already said 4 was something you couldn't even relate to anymore.
    I don't relate to 4 as a main type or a part of my tritype, but as a wing it's perfect. It brings emotionality, creativity, and imagination to the 5w4.

    5w4 - Seeking Knowledge and Identity

    The difference between the 4 wing and the 6 wing in Fives is like the difference between Art and Science. 4 wing brings an abstract, intuitive cast of thought, as though the Five were thinking in geometric shapes instead of words or realistic images. May be talented artistically and inhabit moods like Fours do. Combine intellectual and emotional imagination. Enjoy the realm of philosophy and beautiful constructs of thought. The marriage of mental perspective and aesthetics is the best of life for them. When more defensive may seem a little ghostly, have a whisper in their voice. Fluctuate between impersonal withdrawal and bursts of friendly caring. Can get floaty and abstract. Act like they're inside a bubble, sometimes with an air of implicit superiority. Cliché of the "absentminded professor" applies especially to Fives with this wing. Environmentally sensitive and subject at times to total overwhelm. Touchy about criticism. Can be slow to recover from traumatic events. Melancholy isolation and bleak existential depression are possible pitfalls.

    5w6 - Seeking Knowledge and Security

    The 6 wing brings an orientation to detail and technical knowledge, along with the tendency to think in logical sequence. Especially intellectual, far more analytical than Fives with a 4 wing. Can be loyal friends, offering strong behind-the-scenes support. Kind, patient teachers, skillful experts. May have a sense of mission and work hard. Sometimes project an aura of sensitive nerdiness and have clumsy social skills. When defensive, they can be unnerved by the expectations of others. May like people more but avoid them more. Especially sensitive to social indebtedness. Could have trouble saying "thank you." Fear of taking action, develop "information addiction" instead. Ask lots of questions but don't get around to the decision at hand. When more entranced, they develop a suspicious scrutiny of other people's motives but can also be blind followers. Misanthropic and Scrooge-like when defensive. More able to keep their feelings cut off in a constant way. Can be cold, skeptical, ironic, and disassociated. A Five's 6 wing can be phobic or counterphobic. Counterphobic 6 wing brings courage and antiauthoritarian attitudes. When defensive they may mock authority, or angrily tell others off. Tend to "push the envelope," experiment, find what the limits are.
    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    But still, I think you're a nine.

    I think nine descriptions, for the most part, are written about isfjs or something, just like the four descriptions always seem to lean toward the 4w3. You have to look at it big picture vs getting caught up in the details. When I get caught up in details I start thinking I'm a five... Which I'm not.
    That could be. I don't think the 9 descriptions are especially accurate, but it's hard to get enough information.

    And speaking of the big picture, this tritype as a whole makes a lot of sense to me. It's a delicate balance that I don't think would work nearly as well if I had 9 as my dominant type. I no longer need 4w5 in my tritype because I don't relate to it that strongly, and the wing already provides plenty. I now have 2 in my tritype because I really like helping people (especially by sharing my knowledge). Whenever I sense that someone is suffering, I want to help that person so much, and that's a large part of why I want to change my major to psychology. But my 2 side doesn't show very often because it's hard to get from 5 (detached, stingy with time) to 2 (attached, altruistic), and 9 (disengaged) doesn't help much. 5 and 2 are not necessarily in direct conflict, but 5's detached and aloof qualities rarely lead to a context for my 2 side to take over. But 2 is definitely there, and I've noticed it more and more lately. If I were 9w1 5w4 2w1 instead, my primary mode would be one that's more accommodating, which should create more contexts for 2 to show itself. But I don't really feel like that's my primary mode. I'm having a hard time explaining myself here (there's a lot more to it than this), but I'm looking at all the interrelations between my types and behaviors, and overall this combination with 5w4 as the main type makes perfect sense.

    Also, if I look at the description for this tritype, it works:

    5-9-2: rather easy-going, modest and amiable, these Fives are usually pleasant to have around because of their friendly nature and deeper understanding of the human needs and frailties. They are less judgmental and critical than other Fives and prefer to focus on the better side of things and people and work on exploring and improving these. They also have a somewhat holistic approach to life’s problems and questions – they tend to prefer the general to the particular and aren’t always very scientifically thorough.
    typical subtypes: self-preserving, social, 5w4
    similar tritypes: 5-2-9, 9-5-2
    flavours: agreeable, relaxed, friendly and spiritual
    This tritype could certainly look very much like a 9. Even if you don't believe in tritypes, this still shows that a 5 can resemble a 9 to this extent.

  2. #32
    brainheart
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    I don't know, I just feel like the tritype makes it so wishy washy it's like what's the point? If the dominant type doesn't make sense without all that stuff, it seems kind of meaningless.

    Yes, I relate a lot to five, but when push comes to shove, I tend to wallow in my feelings. Fives aren't comfortable with that. Therefore, it is not my dominant type.

    But if I look at the 549 descriptions, it sounds a lot like me, and it sounds like they do all the four things I do. So it's confusing. I don't know, don't know what to make of it.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I don't know, I just feel like the tritype makes it so wishy washy it's like what's the point? If the dominant type doesn't make sense without all that stuff, it seems kind of meaningless.
    I often feel that way about tritypes too. But this one actually makes sense to me. I think it's the descriptions that make it confusing because a lot of what's in those could be attributed to other factors like the wing (I noticed this especially with the 594 and 549 descriptions--most of what those described is already accounted for by w4). Anyways, I do believe 5 makes sense by itself, it just makes even more sense with the tritype.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Yes, I relate a lot to five, but when push comes to shove, I tend to wallow in my feelings. Fives aren't comfortable with that. Therefore, it is not my dominant type.

    But if I look at the 549 descriptions, it sounds a lot like me, and it sounds like they do all the four things I do. So it's confusing. I don't know, don't know what to make of it.
    5w4's can wallow in feelings, and can even be comfortable with their feelings--that's what the 4 wing adds. The difference seems to be that 4's do it to a much greater degree. 4's feel their emotions intensely all the time and find beauty in sadness. While 5w4's are capable of this, they don't do it as much and are more likely to suppress their emotions. That's the impression I get, anyways.

  4. #34
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I don't get how any ixxp no matter the etype wouldn't have an internal orientation.
    I see people do this all the time and I wonder why. The enneagram and MBTI should not be considered complimentary, all you end up doing is muddying the waters. It's like trying to combine metric and imperial measurements.

    I'm also starting to think, more and more, that the wings are horseshit as well, for the same reason. Plus they're arbitrary as hell.
    Hello

  5. #35
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Here are the problems I have with 9:

    -9's supposedly aren't introspective and wouldn't care that much about finding their type
    -I'm not sure I understand 9's concept of "merging"
    -I'm not particularly other-oriented
    -The descriptions make them sound more extroverted, and I'm a loner
    -I have no problem saying 'no' (when I don't assert myself, it's usually because I don't care one way or the other)
    -I don't lose myself in others

    Here are the problems I have with 5:

    -I'm not particularly intellectual (I can be interested in intellectual things, but I lack the energy, focus, and motivation to pursue them in depth)
    -I'm not at all argumentative or arrogant
    -I've never really been able to relate to 5's existential angst/depression (because the meaninglessness doesn't really bother me)
    -I can't relate to the levels of development in the healthy range (because they emphasize being intellectual)

  6. #36
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Fives aren't required to be intellectual or academic, but they tend to be smart-arses when they're in a bad mood.

    The problem Fives have is detachment, which is a state of observing the world as if you're not a part of it. This can lead to all sorts of things, such as the aforementioned smart-arsery, or feeling like you're too removed from normal participation - which can lead to all sorts of nasty things.

    Healthy Fives supplement their detachment with healthy, emotional participation - they no longer withdraw out of fear, and consequently no longer consider themselves "separate" from everything going on around them.

    I get the feeling that you're still young, which means you're still figuring out who you really are. Once you get independent, you'll come to understand yourself better - both the good and the bad.
    Hello

  7. #37
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Thanks, @VagrantFarce. I do feel pretty isolated and removed, while 9's are supposed to feel connected. I think I probably am a 5. The problems I have with it are minor things that aren't that important. Something else I've been thinking about is that when I start to feel overwhelmed by my emotions, I have a compulsive need to get away from people and be completely alone. I think 9's would probably have a compulsive need to blend in and convince themselves that everything's okay. Thus, 9's would become less internally focused under stress while 5's would become more internally focused.

  8. #38
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    That's what I thought. But I really don't want to be INFP 4w5, because that would put me right back where I started.

    I have now been every combination of INFP/INTP and each of the types in my tritype. (INFP 4w5, INFP 5w4, INTP 5w4, INTP 4w5, INTP 9w1, and INFP 9w1)

    This is basically where I am, though I started getting interested in the enneagram only recently, having been interested in the MBTI for 21 years.

    A couple of people have offered the idea that my primary type is an Enneagram 9, where I was fluctuating between the idea that I'm 4 or 5. Apparently I've been exhibiting very type 9 behavior on forums.

    Reading some description, I may be e9. So I'm wondering what I can do with that? I may start a thread about how to be the happiest 9 on Earth.

    But I can't seem to completely decide between 4 and 9 at the moment.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    This is basically where I am, though I started getting interested in the enneagram only recently, having been interested in the MBTI for 21 years.

    A couple of people have offered the idea that my primary type is an Enneagram 9, where I was fluctuating between the idea that I'm 4 or 5. Apparently I've been exhibiting very type 9 behavior on forums.

    Reading some description, I may be e9. So I'm wondering what I can do with that? I may start a thread about how to be the happiest 9 on Earth.

    But I can't seem to completely decide between 4 and 9 at the moment.
    What made me realize I wasn't a 4 was that I started to understand the extent to which 4's identify with their emotions. Thinking "I am a sad person" is not quite the same thing as taking your melancholy into your identity. Anyone can recognize that they have emotions, but there's a big difference between acknowledging them and embracing them. 9's especially do not want to embrace their dark side, their negative emotions. They want to pretend they don't have emotional needs so they go into a state of self-denial to avoid getting overwhelmed by negative emotions. They avoid introspection and try to convince themselves that everything is okay by blending in to their environment and keeping themselves busy. 4's accept their dark side fully and embrace it as a part of their identity. They don't shy away from emotional pain or negativity like a 9 would. And while 9's avoid introspection, 4's are prone to doing too much introspection and brooding. 5's are probably somewhere in between 9 and 4 when it comes to dealing with emotions. They can accept them or ignore them by suppressing them, but they're not likely to embrace their emotions nearly as much as a 4 would.

  10. #40
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    And while 9's avoid introspection, 4's are prone to doing too much introspection and brooding. 5's are probably somewhere in between 9 and 4 when it comes to dealing with emotions. They can accept them or ignore them by suppressing them, but they're not likely to embrace their emotions nearly as much as a 4 would.
    This makes me think I'm more 4 again. I wonder if I can play my 9 qualities with my 4 ones into some kind of upward spiral. It seems I'm doing the opposite, like spiraling down.

    Right now I'm watching videos on another forum about type 9's, so well see. It seems type 9's sort of get lost in others or group opinion and they withdraw to figure out who they are again, or something.

    I identify with some of it, but it's that part I have difficulty with. I do identify with sloth and inertia and not wanting to deal with problems, but I don't identify much with getting lost in others. I am overly preoccupied with everyone's opinions of me, and tend to not be able to decide between people's points of view. But most of the time I'm wallowing around in my own emotional states. I rarely "go along with group". Maybe if we are deciding on a movie, but in my life and work I want to independently come up with my own system.

    *confused*

    I did start a thread about it too. Okay...back to watching e9 videos...

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