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  1. #11
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    imo It's not necessarily that the sense of self is lacking, but rather that the sense of need is vague. Few things feel certainly urgent to a 9. The attitude that "everything will work out eventually" leads to the perception that it's alright to wait out this one thing at the moment. It then snowballs into putting many things off indefinitely, and by that time it may feel overwhelming enough to put it off even further.

    A 9 above all is concerned with his or her own sense of ease, comfort, autonomy, and familiarity. Simply put, a 9 does not want to be overly bothered. Conflict-avoidance is just a means to that end. It means

    - Less energy spent, thus more internal stability
    - Less tense or volatile atmosphere (external and internal), thus more comfort
    - Less dramatic change, thus more internal familiarity

    What the 9 might do is simply withdraw, mentally or physically, thus in reality she or he is only yielding on things that she or he has no real investment in. There is no need to defend a sphere that you are not residing in! Or, she or he may yield around others while secretly indulging him or her self when alone.

    On things that the 9 really cares for, you will be met with astonishing stubbornness and passive resistance. And when a 9 is really fed up with others interfering with his or her sense of comfort, he or she will either have an angry outburst or disconnect from them entirely.

    If a 9 has a preference and knows that stating it won't sully the atmosphere, he or she would be more outspoken.

    My 9 friend and I both had a fear that we would risk driving others away and ruining the atmosphere if we made a big fuss over things, or made a big scene out of something, or started something that ended up becoming a huge confrontation.

    We trusted each other though, so we were both upfront about things that bothered us or that we disagreed with/didn't want to do. It also helped that we knew which signs to look for.
    I can certainly relate to comfort and ease. And I consider asserting myself a way to maintain harmony rather than a force against it, so I think a 9 could certainly choose to be more assertive and outspoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    It would take a lot of stress for a 9 to want to block so much out. Have you ever been stressed to such a degree?
    Possibly. Though I wonder if it doesn't have to be all negative emotion that a 9 blocks out. I don't mind melancholy, so I don't try to block that out, but shame/embarrassment is often unbearable, so that's something I would try to block out or at least distract myself from. Also, I don't want to experience "bad" feelings like anger, envy, and hate, so I block those out.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    You seemed pretty convinced about sp/so I thought.
    Yeah, but that was when I was a 4. If I'm a 9, Sp/Sx might be better, since Sp/So 9's are the most self-effacing and least assertive of all stackings, and I'm not self-effacing and not that unassertive. 9's are also the least in touch with their instincts, so that could explain why all my instincts seem weak.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mr. Cat's Avatar
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    9 experts? Story of my life.

  3. #13

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    Some random thoughts on 9...

    I think that the ideal of a nine is love. Love as the acceptance of things as they are, including conflict. Everyone seeks to control and adapt to their environment in some way. Correct adaptation would be the right response at the right time to the right degree. That is difficult if not impossible for anyone to achieve so everyone will have ways they try to get what they want. Nines have a tendency to shut down in conflict in average to unhealthy stages, that might mean shutting down psychologically while at the same time being belligerent. I think that could happen. I'm 9w8 which means I have an 8 wing, 8's seem opposite to 9 but isn't it really just the reverse side of the same coin?

    I think the right thing for a 9 to work is paying attention, dealing with things as they arise in a balanced way.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    Nines have a tendency to shut down in conflict in average to unhealthy stages, that might mean shutting down psychologically while at the same time being belligerent.
    I have a question. What exactly do you mean when you say that 9's "shut down" in conflict? Do you mean they give in and try to appease? Or is it more like walking away and avoiding the problem? Does this include conflicts going on around them (even if they're not involved)?

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    I have a question. What exactly do you mean when you say that 9's "shut down" in conflict? Do you mean they give in and try to appease? Or is it more like walking away and avoiding the problem? Does this include conflicts going on around them (even if they're not involved)?
    I am just talking from personal experience here but... When I say shut down I mean shut down physically / psychologically. In a conflict it is easy for me to put a barrier between me and the other person. I remember visualising it like metal shutters coming down on a tank. For me, conflicts around me I tend to watch and get a feel for what is happening. The dynamic can interest me. I can try and find a balance in conflict between the different views, but I don't see that as appeasing because I include myself and my own views.

    So when I say shut down it is a combination of psychological and physical shutting down. Taken too far it breaks any back and forth communication. Done just right it is perfect.

    I'm guessing all nines would shut down and then look for ways to relieve that. And that is where style would come in.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I am just talking from personal experience here but... When I say shut down I mean shut down physically / psychologically. In a conflict it is easy for me to put a barrier between me and the other person. I remember visualising it like metal shutters coming down on a tank. For me, conflicts around me I tend to watch and get a feel for what is happening. The dynamic can interest me. I can try and find a balance in conflict between the different views, but I don't see that as appeasing because I include myself and my own views.

    So when I say shut down it is a combination of psychological and physical shutting down. Taken too far it breaks any back and forth communication. Done just right it is perfect.

    I'm guessing all nines would shut down and then look for ways to relieve that. And that is where style would come in.
    I might be able to relate to that, but I can't be sure. I haven't been in too many conflict situations.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    Possibly. Though I wonder if it doesn't have to be all negative emotion that a 9 blocks out. I don't mind melancholy, so I don't try to block that out, but shame/embarrassment is often unbearable, so that's something I would try to block out or at least distract myself from. Also, I don't want to experience "bad" feelings like anger, envy, and hate, so I block those out.
    I think most 9s would only block out something deemed personally destabilizing. That varies from individual to individual.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Here's a post by Torai from Personality Cafe:
    A few differences between 4 and 9:

    9's try to sugarcoat things to avoid conflict. 4's ultimately don't care as long as they express their unique views on things.

    4's primary mode during depression is to take their emotions into their identity... They're more willing to look into the dark side of themselves and be completely honest. Although, once a 4 looks too much, they might grab onto a dark identity and make it into their character.

    9's look to get away from their depression through influencing their emotions. This does not mean that 9's are unaware of their darker emotions, they just don't want to identify with them too much for fear of permanently destroying their inner peace.

    4's care so much about individualism it really hurts to see some of them... 9's would rather keep the peace than express their negative side for all the world to see.

    Also, huge difference between Fours and Nines you see on this forum all the time. Fours express their views passionately and without shame, and Nines try to be a little bit more tact about it, sometimes not even taking a side.
    I identify much more with the 9 side of these distinctions. Also, back when I was unhealthy, I became extremely introspective and brooding like a 4, but at the same time I didn't feel like myself. I felt like I was exaggerating everything and making things seem much worse than they really were (which I was). I didn't want to stay that way because I was afraid of being permanently changed by it, so while there was a part of me that wanted to wallow in self-pity and melancholy, there was also a part of me that was resisting and preventing myself from going too far. Maybe that's the difference between a 4 and a 9. Maybe if I were a 4, I would have embraced my melancholy more fully and accepted it as a part of my identity, but I just couldn't do that.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    I might be able to relate to that, but I can't be sure. I haven't been in too many conflict situations.
    Really? Life seems full of conflict to me. I mean that in a good way.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    Really? Life seems full of conflict to me. I mean that in a good way.
    Maybe, but I get along with everyone. If I disagree with someone, I do it in a way that avoids conflict. If someone says something harsh or offensive, I rarely take it personally. It's pretty hard to make me angry, so I never get into conflicts with anyone.

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