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  1. #1
    Member Bamboozle's Avatar
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    Default Holy idea and 9s

    Nines are supposed to have 'love' as their holy idea. Does that mean anything to any 9s? Do Holy Ideas help anyone in their understanding of their own behaviour, 9s and others? I'm particularly interested in getting stories/examples of how people think through these Enneagram concepts in their real life.

    Someone thinks I'm possibly a 9w1 but I haven't a clue how to interpret this 'love' as holy idea thing.

    ETA: Brief explanation of the Holy Idea from these articles:

    Each Enneagram type has a “Holy Idea”, which represents a particular characteristic of reality that they are particularly sensitive to. Each Enneagram type perceives one element of the universe above all others, and all type traits follow from this origin point.

    So far as I understand it, the Enneatypes all have basic fears they perpetually run from and Holy Ideas they run to. And I noticed in some of the Enneagram threads that the things they were talking about, the things they were had trouble getting around and letting go of, could be interpreted to have to do with the 'Holy Idea'. Like Noon, they either had to perpetually strive for it or learn that they didn't have to try so hard (which is, I think, part of how the Enneatypes are supposed to learn to grow). I think the types have to learn to let go because, in the end, their Holy Ideas can't actually be realised except in an ideal world. To go to the stereotype, perfection can't actually be attained for the 1s but they feel compelled to try it anyway. 5s, stereotypically, strive for omniscience but simply can't get there. Thus, all the types are pushed and pulled in these different directions, first by fears then by this Holy Idea, and the cycle keeps going until the individual breaks it.
    Last edited by Bamboozle; 09-26-2011 at 05:01 PM.
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  2. #2
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    @Bamboozle

    I think it's a cohesion thing. they ignore hate and focus on love, but this isn't the point of achieving an idea like love. I believe having that as an ideal is probably the most difficult because it is the most subjective and causes the most conflict.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
    Someone thinks I'm possibly a 9w1 but I haven't a clue how to interpret this 'love' as holy idea thing.
    http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/history.asp

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Idea: Holy Love
    Holy Love is the recognition that all is one and that the oneness is ultimately benevolent and supportive. From this perspective we truly experience the well-known spiritual assertion that everything actually is made from Divine Love. When we truly know this, we relax our ego activity and trust Being to support us. It is almost unfathomable to the ego mind that not only could we be loved by the Divine, but that we are actually made of that love. The knowledge lets us move through our lives with deep compassion, nobility, and unshakable inner peace.

    We can also see how Holy Love relates to the virtue of Action, because love itself has a dynamic affect on our souls. What transforms our lives more powerfully than love? What transforms our sense of ourselves more profoundly? Love is not static: it is living, dynamic force that melts down all barriers and boundaries, constantly working to restore our awareness to its pristine unity with Truth. In Holy Love, our sense of separateness dissolves, and we know ourselves as arising from the brilliant light of Divine Love that creates and sustains the universe.
    A quick scan of the page implies that the "Holy Idea" seems to be what each type has idealized and compulsively tried to recreate within and around it due to the sense that it is missing in and around oneself. However, exactly due to human limitations and what type is (an exaggerated fixation), the recreation is bound to fall short. Once a type releases the perception that the existence of the idealized principle is dependent upon their efforts, it might embody the original form of their Holy Idea very well.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Where does it tell about each number's Holy Idea?

  5. #5
    Member Bamboozle's Avatar
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    @Noon: Oh, yes. I've read the descriptions. Theoretically, I know how it's supposed to go. I was wondering more about if people could actually relate their behaviour to the holy idea of their enneagram types. I suppose I was after stories as much as anything else to get a sense of how people thought through these concepts; how the ideas actually come into play.

    @ReflecTcelfeR: Mm, yes. Thanks for that. I do recognise those ideas from reading some 9 forum threads.
    3 INTP

  6. #6
    Member Bamboozle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Where does it tell about each number's Holy Idea?
    Noon's link lists it a fair way down the page. There's also a series of posts on Personality Cafe summarising things like that.
    3 INTP

  7. #7
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Sometimes I think I am a nine. Inner peace is essential for me as being, but I find it hard to imagine someone opposing this idea... Maybe that's the true sign of the nine? I think I would integrate healthily into three. I do enjoy the idea of love, universally as well as personally.... I would also say that I trap the anger and release it into bursts. As for the holy ideal being love... Lemme think on it. Hope that helps a little more.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
    Oh, yes. I've read the descriptions. Theoretically, I know how it's supposed to go. I was wondering more about if people could actually relate their behaviour to the holy idea of their enneagram types. I suppose I was after stories as much as anything else to get a sense of how people thought through these concepts; how the ideas actually come into play.
    Ahh, my apologies.

    How I relate to Holy Will and Holy Perfection: In the past, when I've seen that someone needed assistance, I've assumed that I was the person to show them the best way and eagerly volunteered myself as such. I also felt that if I didn't do it, it might not ever be done, and at the time I couldn't trust that someone else would do it -- especially as well -- if not me.

    Now, I don't bother even half as much. I've learned that people will eventually learn what they need to learn on their own if they really need to learn it, they will gain a valuable strength and understanding from their pain that they might not have if I'd intervened, and basically everyone will end up exactly where they are supposed to end up regardless of the time and method it takes for them to get there. It isn't up to me to help move things along. I'm not nearly so important, and my way is only the best for me.

  9. #9
    Member Bamboozle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR
    Inner peace is essential for me as being, but I find it hard to imagine someone opposing this idea...
    As an introvert who really appreciates my alone time, I'd say that I in no way oppose the idea of inner peace. But at the same time, I don't know if I pursue it. For me, I don't think of the inside of my head as being particularly turbulent. It's certainly all turmoil when I'm stressed but, most of the time, it is my safe space and it seems peaceful enough for me.—So…I'm thinking that if it's not a drive, 9 is not necessarily your core…? (Still testing out my understanding of Enneagram, though.)

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR
    I do enjoy the idea of love, universally as well as personally.... I would also say that I trap the anger and release it into bursts. As for the holy ideal being love... Lemme think on it. Hope that helps a little more.
    Thinking about the above quote and your comment about love and cohesion, the 9s in the threads that I read about seemed to be quite emotionally aware. They said that they knew situations could go bad, for example, but reacted by focusing all the harder on the good side of things. Do you feel like that about anger as well? Would you say you trapped it so that you didn't disturb…a sense of peace?


    @Noon:
    That's really helpful, thank you. So, in your case, the Holy Ideas actually were things that you felt compelled to strive for. And later in life, you learnt to not hold those ideals so highly. I suppose that sounds pretty textbook for Enneagram!
    3 INTP

  10. #10
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Yeah, I think that's a good way to view it. Keeping the peace, for me, has always been something I strive for, and I think I may be with @Noon on this one and found that the peace I was protecting needed disturbing. So perhaps I have given up on the Holy Idea as well. When I was a child I would withhold all thoughts from others in an attempt to maintain a peaceful situations and now I do love a peaceful situation, but if we have to rock the boat to get there I don't mind in the slightest. I think of it as a challenge and dive into the shit storm! It is no longer a drive.

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