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[Other/Multiple Enneatypes] 5s, 6s, 7s - Letting Go of "Knowing"

VagrantFarce

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This article really made me smile, and I think it's precisely what the 3 fearful/mind types go through in life. :) I wonder if other types respond to it as well?

http://www.thehealthylifecoach.com/chronic-pain/letting-go-of-knowing/

Last week, I invited you along on my surrendering journey. My question was this: what are you surrendering to right now? I’m surrendering to not knowing what will happen if I give pregnancy and motherhood another shot, post miscarriage. Which led me to ponder this familiar question: Do I really know anything?

There’s a doozy for my inner brainiac! What? Not know stuff?

She and I have had this discussion before, but she’s still a big fan of knowing stuff. Yet, truly, I cannot know what will happen in the next moment, much less the next day, week, month, or year. I can plan. I can intend. I can imagine. I can dream.

But I can’t know.

Aghhhhhhhh! (Inner brainiac screaming. Poor thing.)

I was trained in school to learn, study, analyze, and know. My intellect was honed and my intuition buried. Which is odd, because what I actually need, to navigate my life successfully, is a lot less intellect and lot more intuition. Because intuition actually does KNOW. It knows in a deeper, less verbal, more visceral, somewhat indescribable way. I need to lead my life with intuition, and apply my intellect to intuitive information.

I don’t know anything with my intellect. But I KNOW lots of things with my intuition. Listening to it is a little like walking a tightrope, but being willing to fall into the big, safe net below. I can be willing to let go of the need to know with my mind. I can walk this motherhood tightrope – heck, I might even attempt a little fancy flip or something. My intuition will guide me, and I will know what I need to know, when I need to know it.

Would you like to walk the tightrope with me? Maybe you’re already a mother, but maybe there’s something new you’d like to do – your version of the tightrope. Possibly your intellect would like to know everything and see how it all works out before you take the first/next step. I hear ya, sister! What would it be like to let go of the need to know, together? I have a feeling that some group energy around this might serve all of us who are open to not knowing and ready to trust our intuition more and more. What are you ready to not know?

In March, when I knew in my heart that I was about to miscarry, I felt angry at my intuition. Why tell me something like that in advance? I didn’t want to KNOW.

Except that I did want to know. I’ve spent years opening back up to my intuition, being willing to listen to that deeper voice within, and learning to trust it. I’ve opened that can of worms, and now I KNOW a lot more than I used to. It can be disconcerting, but at the same time, there’s a sense of preparedness that comes with intuitive knowing. It helped me to know I was miscarrying, even if I did have a little fight with it at first. It made it easier to surrender. In general, I trust myself a lot more now that I KNOW things.

I trust that whatever is happening, it is actually serving me, even if it’s painful or uncomfortable. I learned that big lesson from dealing with vulvodynia and interstitial cysititis. Even though I argued against those experiences for a while, in the end I saw why I needed to have them to become the person I truly wanted to be. After I saw that, I was able to trust that new painful experiences were not there to beat me down, but to help me return to myself in some way.

I’m pretty sure I’ll be returning to myself in some form or another for the rest of my life. The difference is, now I am willing to walk that humble path and trust the KNOWING rather than try to steer clear of pain by intellectually choosing my route. (I said willing, mind you. I didn’t say I do it all the time, or perfectly!) I’m willing to not know, and to KNOW. I’m willing to trust the sense of visceral understanding that sometimes cannot be put into words.

To embark on the pregnancy and motherhood path again, (though I don’t think I’ve actually veered off the path, come to think of it) I have to love my intellect, be kind to it, and then remind it that it just can’t know. Then I have to look into my heart, trust my inner guidance, and take the next step on the tightrope. Yes, I am afraid. I allow the fear to surface as I step into the unknown. I feel it. I get guidance from it. And I keep stepping.
 

pinkgraffiti

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tl;dr, sorry. what's the juice?
 

Silveresque

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tl;dr, sorry. what's the juice?

Definitely this. Mmmm, orange juice. :D

orange_juice.jpg


This article really made me smile, and I think it's precisely what the 3 fearful/mind types go through in life. :) I wonder if other types respond to it as well?

http://www.thehealthylifecoach.com/chronic-pain/letting-go-of-knowing/

Interesting article. It's kind of enlightening to see the perspective of a 5/6/7. Personally, I don't see myself in that article at all, and I've never really worried so much about not knowing. The only times not knowing bothers me is when I'm taking a test and I get to a question where I have to guess, or when I'm given ambiguous instructions where I'm not sure what to do. Otherwise, I don't have to know everything and I can venture into the unknown without much worry. I can go to the store and buy something without knowing if I'm getting the best deal or buying the right brand, and it doesn't bother me one bit. I can take on a challenge without knowing if I'll succeed, and I just don't worry about it. I prefer to just take things as they come and not try to anticipate too much.
 

Mal12345

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Intuition to me doesn't entail anything that special, rather mysterious maybe. But it is experience based. I've worked at my present job for so long now that I can react "instinctively" and proactively based on a "funny little voice" in my head that tells me something's up at work. Or maybe it's just a feeling first and then a thought. But it comes from a non-logical process which is, as I said, based on experience but with unknown psychological origins. And it takes years to develop.
 

Thalassa

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Hmmm...it seems like a type 5, specifically, wrote this...obsession with intellect, sounds like.

On the other hand, my mother calls me "a walking encyclopedia" because of my ability to spit out facts about this or that, and how I will sometime respond to questions with things people don't want to hear (like yesterday..."that's a symptom of OCD"...because, well, IT IS...not what the person wanted to hear, but typical of me spitting out answers...I used to do it in college too, and that's why I got good grades).

HOWEVER, I also realize how much I don't know. I don't have the 5 obsession with academic type knowledge, I really don't. I don't want to go to grad school. I don't really have that much of an obsession with intellect. However, I'm also not an NT, nor am an INFJ (the most NT-ish of the NFs, supposedly).

So my point is that the lady in the article is probably a 5, an NT, maybe even both.

as an xSFP 6w7, I do understand the frenetic need to be RIGHT though. I want to be RIGHT. RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT.

It's one of the things I'm learning to let go of with Taoism. It's really hard for me though. Everything in me seems to resist it in certain situations. So I guess that's the Counterphobic Enneagram 6 in me, coupled with immature Te or something.

I'm learning the concept of wu wei. At least I'm trying. The results probably aren't especially obvious yet though because I've only just begun and it's a MAJOR SPOT OF GROWTH FOR ME, A MAJOR PSYCHOLOGICAL/EMOTIONAL/SPIRITUAL HURDLE.

I'm practicing an exercise of not having to explain or defend when I disagree. I'm at least trying to do it less, ha.

So in that sense, yes, I relate to the overall concept of the article.
 

VagrantFarce

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I don't have the 5 obsession with academic type knowledge

For the record, Fives aren't automatically academic types.

I just like the distinction the article makes between knowing (i.e. planning, thinking, modelling - falling back on the mind) and KNOWING (intuition, taking direct action, instinct - learning to quiet the mind).
 

Mal12345

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(the most NT-ish of the NFs, supposedly).

...an indirect reason for my belief that John Lennon's type is INFJ, yet he is so often typed as INTP and/or type 5. I knew an INFJ female just like that, very scholarly and intellectual, but she tested as INFJ, and a 4 with even wings.

Just an off-topic observation.
 

mujigay

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Fascinating.

My gut feeling, my intuitions, have always been a huge part of me, so this is an almost alien point of view. Not that I disagree with a thirst for knowledge, only that I could never shut off that inner ear in that way.
 
G

Glycerine

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[MENTION=6877]Marmie Dearest[/MENTION]: I am 95% sure that I am 5w6 and by no means am I an academic type. To be honest, most of academia bores me. My knowlege-seeking usually revolves around what makes people tick, motivations. Most of my "ideas" are about people in a general sense.
 

highlander

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The trick is distinguishing fear from intuition. It's not always easy to tell.
 

mountainofdew

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I test as 5w6, and as an ISTP/J depending on the test. This persons self revelation seems obvious to me. I don't think I could have put any of that angst where someone else could read it. This womans internal philosophical debate is obnoxious to me. I think of intuition as all the stuff our mind picks up unconciously from our senses. I also think that intuition informs the intellect as well as knowledge. Intuition is in a sense knowledge. So this trusting of "inner guidance" seems fuzzy to me. The article didn't make me smile. It is interesting to see how another mind arrives at a particular conclusion.
 

skylights

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i like the word "surrender". i feel like i have to gather a mental net of doubts (unknowns) and push them aside and forcefully say "oh well" to them and trust that things are going to work out okay even though i do not have all the information i would like to have. for me, half the lesson is understanding how to live in the moment. taoism helps, like marmie said.

one of my favorite songs has these lyrics:
i'm feeling better since i surrendered
you can't climb until you're ready to fall


i think for me the problem is setting aside those doubts and acting on a course. i get too caught up in doubts and don't act. so somewhat paradoxically, surrendering to the unknown helps me create my own future.
 

Vizzy

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I like to know that I can do something before I do it. I need to know that this project turns out well before I agree to take on another one afterwards...even if you think I'm capable. In that sense, I'm tougher on myself than anyone else is. But that means I'm very self-motivated, and if something goes wrong, I'm happy to blame myself.
There are things I DON'T need to know. For example, what I'm doing next month, or what my future's going to be like. There are risks I'll have to take but I'll deal with them when they come.

And for the record, I don't trust my intuition at all.
 

Elfboy

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I think this applies more to 5s and 6s than it does 7s. growth for a 7 is actually kind of the opposite. for a 7, growth is about becoming more focused, consistent and in depth in their pursuits. our natural tendency is to be scatter brained and avoid the hard work and less convenient realizations that come with focusing on the task at hand. growth for a 7 is about becoming MORE knowledge seeking, not less

for all head types though, the growth is some form of stabilizing factor that brings self assurance, confidence and groundedness
- this is most evident in type 6. 9 brings a feeling of safety, a connection to the body and a deep relaxation and tranquility.
- 8 brings to 5 the confidence to act and willingness to face life's challenges head on as opposed to endless intellectualizing and procrastinating action
- 5 brings to 7 focus, depth and a more intellectual, sophisticated means of pleasure
 
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