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  1. #1
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    Question A questions for 4's... other types more than welcome to contribute.

    4's (and guests): Even when you're in a good mood, even when you're in the healthy levels/states, is there always a part of you, deep inside, that hurts? For me, there is, and it may or may not be overpowering, sometimes it's just this little feeling... Do you always have it to? Does it ever go away?

    Please don't misunderstand. I know 4's have strengths too. It's just I see so many unhealthy 4s, and even though I consider myself to be healthier than average, I still couldn't say that i'm happy in the simplest sense. At rare times I am, but they're very fleeting...
    Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let the bitterness steal your sweetness." ― Kurt Vonnegut

    ENFP. 7w6 – 4w3 – 1w9 sx/so. Aries. Dilettante. Overly anxious optimist.

  2. #2
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    It diminishes and dissolves after much self-reflection and reconnecting with reality
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  3. #3
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    i feel like my good moods usually aren't true happiness, just being distracted enough to forget about the stuff going on inside.

  4. #4
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    likewise.

    I mean, don't get me wrong. I feel very happy. But it's as if there's this small piece of melancholy that's still always there. It bubbles up and down on occasion. But I'd still put myself on the average to healthy end.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
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  5. #5
    brainheart
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    Always a part that hurts, but it hurts less. More a twinge of melancholy or regret than anything. But I have to make a point of not focusing on it to be only a twinge. Dwelling on past pain can be seductive. If I succumb, I sink.

  6. #6
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    ^ How fascinating! It's interesting to read of others' experiences.

    Since other types are welcome.. I thought I would share that now I'm to a point where when I'm really happy/high/joyful, I revel in that.. I love it. I eat it up for all it's worth -- You could say I almost bask in it - simply because I know it will be short-lived in the grand scheme. So a detached part of me is definitely aware that it will not last, although for me it's never a background feeling of Hurt/sadness as is being describe. Rather, historically, it was almost a panic that once it receded I would be filled with the neutral or negative, which would feel far worse having just experienced the opposite. It was a premature bracing for the inevitable descent, as highs cannot be maintained in that sense.

    So several years ago this was something I had a hard time dealing with, and it was one of the root causes of deep Anxiety for a while- my having a hard time coping with the changing, ephemeral nature of my emotions. My having to deal with them at all, as they never were really a focal point, in and of themselves, prior to my mid 20's. My getting to a point where I was unable to make heads or tails of the present, emotionally, because I was already in a state of dreading future unhappiness/negative emotions. Feeling prematurely consumed by future pain that I knew would happen, as that's life. Although through all of that I realized the fact that this stuff is so fluid also means that pain will never last either.. that I can turn it around and look forward to future awesomeness just as well. All of it just flows, and now the negative doesn't have any disproportionate 'power' any longer, thus ironically has lessened overall.

    So for me I lean towards issues regarding future pain/future possibilities... the past doesn't really have a hold on me, at least once I've processed whatever ocurred in the past so as to be able to look forward. It's always a bit of an unsteady balance between the present and future, and often not knowing how to reconcile the two or which should hold more sway in a given moment.

    And by this point, I've gone totally off topic.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  7. #7
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    How does envy emerge as a "passion"? Everyone gets pulled down by melancholy and regret, so I wonder how it differs for those who fall back on / identify with it more strongly.

    For example, as a Five I've been through the whole avaricious "separate myself from the world" phase. I recognize now, looking back, that it was a terribly destructive thing to do (not only to myself, but to the friends I callously left behind without warning), but it felt just right at the time. It felt like I had been building toward it for years, and I finally got my opportunity to just fucking go with it.

    "Finally, I don't have to worry about what anyone else has in store for me! I can be my own person, and to hell with everyone else! How liberating!"
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    How does envy emerge as a "passion"?
    Ah, welcome to the wonder of being a 4. To avoid feeling shamefully deficient, your natural coping method is to wrap yourself in those feelings which made you feel shamefully deficient in the first place. If this were evolution, we'd be the platypus.
    Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let the bitterness steal your sweetness." ― Kurt Vonnegut

    ENFP. 7w6 – 4w3 – 1w9 sx/so. Aries. Dilettante. Overly anxious optimist.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    The underlying four makes me feel odd. "Hurting"- maybe not. Just odd, a bit dark. Like life is just this big fleeting moment, and the world is made up of all these separated things, and there's nothing to it. I have been unable to put a word on the four feeling. I think broken/ unwhole/ incomplete are better words than hurting. But those still aren't the right words. Someday someone will come up with the word. Some people say fours are sad. It's not sad for me. It's not similar to any kind of sad that I've felt. It's something completely different, and it's an uncomfortable thing.
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  10. #10
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    i feel like my good moods usually aren't true happiness, just being distracted enough to forget about the stuff going on inside.
    I agree with the first part. Good mood, good day, having fun does NOT equal happiness. Happiness for me is a sense of over all contentment/fulfillment. During those times, I can still have bad moods, bad days & boring tasks to take care of. So fleeting moods is not how I gauge happiness. I almost forget to look around & take stock at all because I feel contented, not lacking. Of course, the tendency for the 4 is to look inward & continually pinpoint the next missing piece in their dream, which is why sustaining happiness is hard. I think this is a part of an endless cycle, & something all people experience, but I feel as long as I can keep a steady pace moving forward, then I think I can sustain happiness. The pitfall as a 4 is not to get stuck looking inward & mulling over their deficiencies, but to keep motivated in action (which involves 1 integration).

    I can say there is something about happiness, beauty, etc, that makes me sad, because you're also aware of how fleeting it can be, how difficult it is to attain. It stirs a sense of longing for it, even before it has gone. Sometimes it highlights what is wrong in other aspects of life also.

    This is the closest I can see "envy" in 4s. I find assigning "sins" to each type hokey & prefer descriptions which focus on emotional motivations, and for the 4 that is to be unique to deal with a sense of defectiveness. As a part of that, envy is a longing for what the 4 does not have, but it's not necessarily directed at others; it's a longing for a fantasy to be fulfilled to feel complete. Of course, this could be my own 4w5 Fi-dom slant on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    How does envy emerge as a "passion"? Everyone gets pulled down by melancholy and regret, so I wonder how it differs for those who fall back on / identify with it more strongly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chiharu View Post
    Ah, welcome to the wonder of being a 4. To avoid feeling shamefully deficient, your natural coping method is to wrap yourself in those feelings which made you feel shamefully deficient in the first place. If this were evolution, we'd be the platypus.
    I'll add to that & say you also turn the shameful, deficiency into some art form (not literally, necessarily). But it's romanticized in a way so you feel & even appear a tragic figure instead of just a loser. If you can't, as a 4, encompass all the beauty & ideals of your fantasies, then you will embrace the opposite, and in a sense, highlight the very same things, but via your deficiencies.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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