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  1. #61
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    Also look out for the weakness! 6w7 is weak regarding technical theory and it makes them extremely uncomfortable and fidgity whenever there is even a slight technical or logical fault, the 6w5 is uncomfortable with social ambiguity and people saying different things in different places. In a contradictory fashion the 6w5 is more comfortable with analytical faults therefore their anxiety is from the 7 position.

  2. #62
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    I'm always fascinated by how many people view my posts.

  3. #63
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    If you require more insight into exactly what goes on with type six I recommend reading this link:

    http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/type6.php

    Helen Parker took it a step further by proscribing that the 5 is a 'technical/logical exclusive' analyst, the 7 is a 'socially exclusive' analyst whereas the head space of the 6 is preoccupied by both the politic and the technical/logic therefore being anxious as a consequence of seeing where all of these factors trip up or succeed.
    Could be something to that. Not sure if this is what you're getting at but I am always extremely aware of the two-edged nature of...well, reality...it bothers me how people get so worshipful of certain forms of technology and science because I can always see both the good and the bad and am very aware that the bad outcomes often have more of an effect than the good.

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Also look out for the weakness! 6w7 is weak regarding technical theory and it makes them extremely uncomfortable and fidgity whenever there is even a slight technical or logical fault, the 6w5 is uncomfortable with social ambiguity and people saying different things in different places. In a contradictory fashion the 6w5 is more comfortable with analytical faults therefore their anxiety is from the 7 position.
    I definitely tend to get nervous or angry about people being inconsistent, saying one thing and doing another. I'm also very aware of the double-edged nature of charm and social skills - they can smooth the way and make things pleasant and move social interaction forward, but they can also facilitate manipulation, duplicity etc.

    Not sure any of my outlooks in this regard are unique to being a 6 though. But I'd definitely say at this point that I have a lot of issues around trust.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Could be something to that. Not sure if this is what you're getting at but I am always extremely aware of the two-edged nature of...well, reality...it bothers me how people get so worshipful of certain forms of technology and science because I can always see both the good and the bad and am very aware that the bad outcomes often have more of an effect than the good.

    I definitely tend to get nervous or angry about people being inconsistent, saying one thing and doing another. I'm also very aware of the double-edged nature of charm and social skills - they can smooth the way and make things pleasant and move social interaction forward, but they can also facilitate manipulation, duplicity etc.

    Not sure any of my outlooks in this regard are unique to being a 6 though. But I'd definitely say at this point that I have a lot of issues around trust.
    The reason that enneagram sucks is that the traits are not unique and they are circumstantial. There is no real constant that makes one any enneatype.

  5. #65
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    The reason that enneagram sucks is that the traits are not unique and they are circumstantial. There is no real constant that makes one any enneatype.
    In personality typing terms, I'd certainly be wary of identifying myself purely as a 6, while I feel pretty comfortable identifying myself purely as an INFJ. In other words, I'm happy to say "I'm an INFJ" or "I'm an INFJ type 6w5", but not so much just "I'm 6w5." The 6 is more my flavour of INFJ, I think.

    It seems like the enneagram is a little too vague in that you're probably going to identify at least a tiny bit with most of the types. I think the whole wing, tritype, etc thing adds to that too...it's sort of like you can be a bit of all of the types. But I guess that's basically what the theory is about.

    I think of 6 as being my DOMINANT e-type and it's good for me to be aware of what it reveals. But like anything - including MBTI - you can take it too far, and it's better not to...
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    In personality typing terms, I'd certainly be wary of identifying myself purely as a 6, while I feel pretty comfortable identifying myself purely as an INFJ. In other words, I'm happy to say "I'm an INFJ" or "I'm an INFJ type 6w5", but not so much just "I'm 6w5." The 6 is more my flavour of INFJ, I think.

    It seems like the enneagram is a little too vague in that you're probably going to identify at least a tiny bit with most of the types. I think the whole wing, tritype, etc thing adds to that too...it's sort of like you can be a bit of all of the types. But I guess that's basically what the theory is about.

    I think of 6 as being my DOMINANT e-type and it's good for me to be aware of what it reveals. But like anything - including MBTI - you can take it too far, and it's better not to...
    The biggest problem with ennea-six is that others wish to label the traits of the six as exclusively negative and extreme. Rebellious and timid, aggressive and passive.

    However these are not the only extremes, passion and calm, devout and skeptical. These are very powerful, if what appear to other enneatypes contradictory labels which can easily be applied to 6's.

    Sixes are courageous and reactive in the face of abusive people because they see the evidence of abuse; if the other can show that they are not being abusive and are willing to make amends then this stops. By contrast sixes are loyal / placid behind those who show wisdom and compassion and show evidence of this.

    The 6s is a more extreme and yet realistic character in terms of how they evaluate their environment than other enneatypes. It's not paranoia because the inner voice is what is 'missing' from the 6 in enneagram terms, there is little self interest. This is why the 6 needs confirmation from the environment! It's about being acutely discerning about the evidence and then being rational and decisive when interpretating the results.

    Don't be dissuaded about type 6 by the fact it is used as a dirty word by some in typology circles. It is a more grand statement about their own unwillingness to be critiqued and to be held to account than anything else.

  7. #67
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    The biggest problem with ennea-six is that others wish to label the traits of the six as exclusively negative and extreme. Rebellious and timid, aggressive and passive.

    However these are not the only extremes, passion and calm, devout and skeptical. These are very powerful, if what appear to other enneatypes contradictory labels which can easily be applied to 6's.

    Sixes are courageous and reactive in the face of abusive people because they see the evidence of abuse; if the other can show that they are not being abusive and are willing to make amends then this stops. By contrast sixes are loyal / placid behind those who show wisdom and compassion and show evidence of this.

    The 6s is a more extreme and yet realistic character in terms of how they evaluate their environment than other enneatypes. It's not paranoia because the inner voice is what is 'missing' from the 6 in enneagram terms, there is little self interest. This is why the 6 needs confirmation from the environment! It's about being acutely discerning about the evidence and then being rational and decisive when interpretating the results.

    Don't be dissuaded about type 6 by the fact it is used as a dirty word by some in typology circles. It is a more grand statement about their own unwillingness to be critiqued and to be held to account than anything else.

    It's true, it's often used very negatively. I've seen people say they think it only exists as an unhealthy version of other types. Not true. I'm surprisingly proud to be an INFJ 6.

    I'm convinced that there are more 6s out there than are willing to identify themselves as such. And interestingly, a lot of people seem more willing to identify themselves as counterphobic - I don't know if there are statistics about whether phobic or counterphobic 6 is more common. But to me it almost seems like people are more willing to openly say "I'm counterphobic, so I'm aggressive and sometimes try to provoke anger" than "I'm phobic, so I'm inclined to be timid and seek security."
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Also look out for the weakness! 6w7 is weak regarding technical theory and it makes them extremely uncomfortable and fidgity whenever there is even a slight technical or logical fault, the 6w5 is uncomfortable with social ambiguity and people saying different things in different places. In a contradictory fashion the 6w5 is more comfortable with analytical faults therefore their anxiety is from the 7 position.
    interesting. my dad (6w5) and i seem to follow that pattern relatively well.

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    The reason that enneagram sucks is that the traits are not unique and they are circumstantial. There is no real constant that makes one any enneatype.
    i was convinced the enneagram sucked for a long time, but i'm opening more to it recently. the most important thing to me, that makes it a realistic system, is that it's an explanation of defense mechanisms. how we "cope" with the world. whereas MBTI is clearer because it manifests all the time, not just under stress. i think that's got to do with what silk is saying - 6 is her flavor of INFJ and not INFJ her flavor of 6, and i think it works that way for many of us because our enneatypes do not always play into our "baseline" thought/behavior patterns. it's the same for me... ENFP is much clearer than 6.

    the way i like to think about figuring out MBTI type is, if you plopped yourself as a child someone down in a wide field of flowers on a pleasant, sunny day, what do you think about, what do you do? how do you look at things, when removing as many external confounders as possible? but i don't think you'd get most people's enneatypes out of that because there are theoretically no challenges to respond to in that scenario.

    given, i am not the most knowledgeable about the enneagram, but i was under the impression that what differentiates each type is the "core" fixation. morality; generosity; achievement; originality; knowledge; security; entertainment; self-reliance; peace. nothing else makes an enneatype besides that fixation. and the wing is used to bolster the main type, both in terms of augmenting it and relieving it. a 6w7 will use entertainment to feel more secure and also to escape worrying about security. a 3w4 will use originality to garner more status and also to escape the confines of the status game. a 9w8 will use self-reliance to feel more calm and also to escape the restraints imposed by tuning everything out.

    (i am more thinking aloud and explaining my understanding to myself than attempting to explain to you, in case that does not come across.)

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    It seems like the enneagram is a little too vague in that you're probably going to identify at least a tiny bit with most of the types. I think the whole wing, tritype, etc thing adds to that too...it's sort of like you can be a bit of all of the types. But I guess that's basically what the theory is about.

    I think of 6 as being my DOMINANT e-type and it's good for me to be aware of what it reveals. But like anything - including MBTI - you can take it too far, and it's better not to...
    yes, definitely.

    though at least personally i'm starting to see in 6 so many of my traits that ENFP just doesn't account for. i like the enneagram because it gives me avenues to stop my self-harmful circular processes. it's more useful in terms of self-development. whereas the MBTI is more useful to me in terms of interaction with others, learning to communicate across thought-process differences.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    It's true, it's often used very negatively. I've seen people say they think it only exists as an unhealthy version of other types. Not true. I'm surprisingly proud to be an INFJ 6.

    I'm convinced that there are more 6s out there than are willing to identify themselves as such. And interestingly, a lot of people seem more willing to identify themselves as counterphobic - I don't know if there are statistics about whether phobic or counterphobic 6 is more common. But to me it almost seems like people are more willing to openly say "I'm counterphobic, so I'm aggressive and sometimes try to provoke anger" than "I'm phobic, so I'm inclined to be timid and seek security."
    yeah, i think so. and it's kind of silly because i'm guessing most of us are really both. i know i'm really counterphobic about physical things but i'm generally phobic about social relationships. and i can swing wildly if someone threatens me, or if i find a harbor of safety, and i imagine that's true for most 6s as well.

    i dunno why it would be seen as more negative than any other enneatype... perhaps because we seem inconsistent to others. i like the type though, it's a pretty good description of a significant facet of how i operate and i might as well embrace it, good and bad.

    if others don't want to... well, they can kiss my ass

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    myself as well. at least, not your average 6. of course some very unhealthy ones will. i mean, both myself and my dad, also a 6, have a tendency to keep things around "just in case". he's sp-first and more outwardly concerned - he'll carry around pepper spray on him, i just keep it in my car. stuff like that.
    After seeing what happened in Japan and New Orleans, etc., I don't see it as being unhealthy to be prepared for disaster, to a certain degree. (Stockpiling food isn't necessarily unhealthy). After studying politics a bit, believing that some conspiracy theories are possible isn't necessarily unhealthy either ...... We are sixes for a reason. We aren't supposed to have immense faith, but to question.

    I've also prepared for impending hurricanes, and water and food was hard to come by sometimes. It's better to be safe than sorry.
    I live in earthquake territory....

    I think a lot more people than just sixes have emergency supplies on hand just-in-case......http://www.bt.cdc.gov/preparedness/ Certain preparations are needed.
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  10. #70
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    It seems to me someone lacking the sp variant as a six would seem less stereotypically six, yes?

    I typically don't seem anxious. I am not a planner. I might consider catastrophes but then I kind of think, meh, what can I do?

    What stresses me out is the idea of people who I feel a connection with abandoning me, not having their support. This is usually in the initial stage of a relationship, before I trust them to stick around. If I know I can trust them, the anxiety, for the most part, subsides- unless I consider doing something they might disapprove of, then I get stressed again
    Either I throw caution to the wind and say the hell with it or I keep it hidden from them or I do nothing, sacrifice my need of self expression for the sake of the relationship.

    Conversely, my daughter is freaked by thunderstorms, our cats dying, her swimsuit getting moldy if it sits in a bag.... But not so much about her relationships, maybe because she's always had friends while I really didn't as a child.

    I doubt most people would peg me as a worry wart, I usually don't voice my fears.

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