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  1. #11
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    8's are connected with antisocial personality disorder when unhealthy. Even my healthy 8 significant other, when pissed, will try to control me by taking my car keys, taking money and credit cards out of my wallet, etc. When actually unhealthy, they turn very antisocial and believe all people are disgusting, worthless, threatening, etc., and that everyone has an ulterior motive. They become very paranoid, especially thinking everyone is betraying them. They can become socially isolated, bitter, have a lack of conscience and empathy, and become hard-hearted. Unhealthy 8's can show episodes of rage, violence, and physical destruction, plotting vengeance, and retaliation against enemies. They can see themselves as outlaws, and be involved in criminal behaviors and circles. They strike back at society, as in sociopathy. In other words, they become the closest thing to a sociopath there is lol..... When angry, healthy 8's can show signs of it, as in, engaging in unhealthy behaviors temporarily.

    My 8 SO can argue any side, even if he agrees with it or not. And when he is bored especially or has extra energy, he will argue points he does not believe in just for kicks. He expects you to figure out that he doesn't believe it, and to beat him at his own game. It's sport to him. His criticisms also are challenges. I have found ways to get around them, much as he does when he is criticized. He respects people who can challenge him and have good countering arguments, people who fight for what they want. He respects people who have strong boundaries, and are very expressive; people who are much like him. He has definitely strengthened me. If your 8 friend keeps criticizing you, chances are, he wants you to counter it, to tell him that no, he's wrong, and you will prove it to him. This could lead to a big, huge argument, one in which you will have to find a way to win eventually. Sometimes that means showing him that he's not so different from you, in showing him that hey, you left napkins on the counter, but he left hairs on the counter from shaving. (The "when did you become perfect?" counter) lol..... Once you show him the truth of the matter, he will stop doing it. And then eventually, you will have figured out how to get what you want from him, but it takes work. My 8 is not easily led or convinced. Sometimes it takes resources and time, but when it is enough to convince him, he will believe it, and he will change his tune. What I like about my 8 is that he will improve and grow with knowledge. Our relationship has grown into one of mutual respect. We both have criticisms of the other, and it is balanced. (In other words, you learn to become just as big of an asshole as he can be sometimes, and then you begin to realize, it's not nearly as serious to him as it is to me. I think people tend to take 8's way too seriously).

    If you want an 8 partner, it really helps if you don't mind arguing on occasion, and you don't get too hurt by it or take it too seriously. If you hate to argue, don't pick an 8 partner lol.....it also helps to learn to wear him out so he doesn't have a lot of energy left over for arguing. lol...... Our relationship works because I keep goals in mind for the two of us, and keep us moving ahead, and working on projects. My 8 expects me to improve our personal lives, and to set goals in that direction. He does well in an office environment. He has little sp, so I have to take up the slack in that department.
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  2. #12
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    The excerpt from personalitycafe doesn't address the underlying issues. What might be more telling, is at what point or points the 8 became critical or overcritical. Even if his criticisms appear to be random and at every action, it's possible you can figure out the underlying source to his attitude.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    . He has definitely strengthened me. If your 8 friend keeps criticizing you, chances are, he wants you to counter it, to tell him that no, he's wrong, and you will prove it to him. This could lead to a big, huge argument, one in which you will have to find a way to win eventually. Sometimes that means showing him that he's not so different from you, in showing him that hey, you left napkins on the counter, but he left hairs on the counter from shaving. (The "when did you become perfect?" counter) lol..... Once you show him the truth of the matter, he will stop doing it. And then eventually, you will have figured out how to get what you want from him, but it takes work. My 8 is not easily led or convinced. Sometimes it takes resources and time, but when it is enough to convince him, he will believe it, and he will change his tune. What I like about my 8 is that he will improve and grow with knowledge. Our relationship has grown into one of mutual respect. We both have criticisms of the other, and it is balanced. (In other words, you learn to become just as big of an asshole as he can be sometimes, and then you begin to realize, it's not nearly as serious to him as it is to me. I think people tend to take 8's way too seriously).

    If you want an 8 partner, it really helps if you don't mind arguing on occasion, and you don't get too .
    your post is excellent. I relate to most of it. Definately agree on antisocial personality disorder :flop: What mbti type is your so?

    An 8 I am talking about is the most difficult person I know, he is an ENTP and very social but also very unhealthy and hates the whole world, he is so convinced in his perception of reality that it is impossible to make him see there is totally different world out there. We argue all the time but I enjoy it very much, I love to argue lol, though in the beginning I was taking it too srsly but figure its not that serious at all. We usually argue about moral topics, politics, because he sees conspiracies everywhere.

    I am interested how other 8s deal with life set backs. He is very very poor and very frustrated because of it, also convinced there is no way to get out of that hole because "world is designed for rich people", refuses any idea how to get a better job explaining how its impossible; its usually too much work for nothing or he says he couldnt take authority or this or that.. has 200 excuses in his sleave...
    it is weird because from what i know 8s are people who want power and control but i guess he is so deeply convinced he cant have it that he quits before evem trying. Its a huge vicious circle.

    Is there any way you can help unhealhty 8? As I said when I try to help I was accused of "looking down at him" etc..

  4. #14
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloé View Post
    your post is excellent. I relate to most of it. Definately agree on antisocial personality disorder :flop: What mbti type is your so?

    An 8 I am talking about is the most difficult person I know, he is an ENTP and very social but also very unhealthy and hates the whole world, he is so convinced in his perception of reality that it is impossible to make him see there is totally different world out there. We argue all the time but I enjoy it very much, I love to argue lol, though in the beginning I was taking it too srsly but figure its not that serious at all. We usually argue about moral topics, politics, because he sees conspiracies everywhere.

    I am interested how other 8s deal with life set backs. He is very very poor and very frustrated because of it, also convinced there is no way to get out of that hole because "world is designed for rich people", refuses any idea how to get a better job explaining how its impossible; its usually too much work for nothing or he says he couldnt take authority or this or that.. has 200 excuses in his sleave...
    it is weird because from what i know 8s are people who want power and control but i guess he is so deeply convinced he cant have it that he quits before evem trying. Its a huge vicious circle.

    Is there any way you can help unhealhty 8? As I said when I try to help I was accused of "looking down at him" etc..
    no, there is no way to help an unhealthy 8. they're not like a 6 or a 2, they can only help themselves. life in the eyes of an unhealthy 8 is a battle in which everyone is against him and he must destroy everything and everyone to maintain his autonomy.
    PS: your 8 friend sounds NTJ, not NTP
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  5. #15
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Well I can't speak for other 8s but really, the only way I got out of unhealthy-ness was to realize that I am unhealthy and that I have to take time for myself to work on the inside.

    An 8 relates to his environment, being a gut type and knowing 8s, they only listen to themselves. You mention about him being very very poor and how he's giving 200 excuses in his sleeve. I would think that for him to do anything, it would take him a bit of alone time to let him introspect. This would be "five disintegration" -- in a sense.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    no, there is no way to help an unhealthy 8. they're not like a 6 or a 2, they can only help themselves. life in the eyes of an unhealthy 8 is a battle in which everyone is against him and he must destroy everything and everyone to maintain his autonomy.
    PS: your 8 friend sounds NTJ, not NTP
    He is a living and breathing ENTP without a miligram J, or Te or Ni, or Fi in his body, ty


    i assumed theres no help, too bad im in love

  7. #17
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloé View Post
    your post is excellent. I relate to most of it. Definately agree on antisocial personality disorder :flop: What mbti type is your so?
    He is entj.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chloé View Post
    An 8 I am talking about is the most difficult person I know, he is an ENTP and very social but also very unhealthy and hates the whole world, he is so convinced in his perception of reality that it is impossible to make him see there is totally different world out there. We argue all the time but I enjoy it very much, I love to argue lol, though in the beginning I was taking it too srsly but figure its not that serious at all. We usually argue about moral topics, politics, because he sees conspiracies everywhere.

    I am interested how other 8s deal with life set backs. He is very very poor and very frustrated because of it, also convinced there is no way to get out of that hole because "world is designed for rich people", refuses any idea how to get a better job explaining how its impossible; its usually too much work for nothing or he says he couldnt take authority or this or that.. has 200 excuses in his sleave...
    it is weird because from what i know 8s are people who want power and control but i guess he is so deeply convinced he cant have it that he quits before evem trying. Its a huge vicious circle.

    Is there any way you can help unhealhty 8? As I said when I try to help I was accused of "looking down at him" etc..
    My S.O. has never been in this state of mind as far as I know. He has gone through unhealthy periods but I did not know him at the time. He has hated people, but I don't think he has ever had problems with work. I am sure 8 manifests itself differently in entj. My 8 will listen, but he won't say he is listening. He takes feedback, and you know that by the changes he makes in his life, and in the way he responds. He listens when he thinks the information is true and helpful. I am not sure how entp's would respond, exactly. I would not tell my 8 that I was trying to help. I would just try to convince him of some concepts simply by talking about them, and probably then, arguing about them, and through gathering resources that would be helpful to my arguments. My S.O. will listen to good information. If he cares about you and respects you, he will listen to you, but you have to approach it correctly. At least that is how it is with my 8.... each new issue is a battle. LoL.....
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    I would not tell my 8 that I was trying to help. I would just try to convince him of some concepts simply by talking about them, and probably then, arguing about them, and through gathering resources that would be helpful to my arguments. My S.O. will listen to good information. ..
    My first tactic wasnt "i want to help"; it was exactly what you're doing; reason, resources, proving that i am right, showing truth - but nothing of it works, i am not the first one to try... then i switched to "i am trying to help" because i thought maybe I can trick him with feelery approach haha

  9. #19
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I'm quite fond of 8's myself but they can be a brick wall or raging elephant, depending on the tactic they've chosen. Chloe, is it perhaps an idea to appeal to his entp side and go social morality (Fe) on him? As in, if society is to work, even if it's never going to work perfectly the way it should, people should really do this and this. Show him hat you too loathe the idea of giving up your freedom, but appeal to his T by showing the logic of 'if you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours' on which society is build and the many benefits it gives people. And make it clear that it is a flawed system (which means it's a system he can game once he learns the rules, if that's something that appeals to him) but it's better than nothing.

    Also point out to him when those things around him happen, to make him see it's not all rotten to the core and some of it does work? Dont expect him to acknowledge it in the moment, but..show him how to notice it and see if he does on his own. As for what you're saying..he sounds insecure about dealing with the world, he might have tried and felt the world was trying to control him without giving him anything in return, or, might have been unwilling to give the world anything in return for profit as he saw it as controlling. I've found that ENTPs are, much like ENFPs, even more set on their freedom and perhaps resent being controlled more than ENTJs do, until they recognize the value of Fe and even then it's grudgingly, but they do 'man up' at that point.

    He seems to be unsure if he should embrace that as it would be a slap in the face of his pride (conceding to others and allowing them some influence on him) as well as facing his worst nightmare at the same time, which is where insecurity comes in.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    If you want an 8 partner, it really helps if you don't mind arguing on occasion, and you don't get too hurt by it or take it too seriously. If you hate to argue, don't pick an 8 partner lol....
    True and even my ENFJ learned how to not to get so butthurt - don't take it personally.

    it also helps to learn to wear him out so he doesn't have a lot of energy left over for arguing. lol......
    OMG this is true. It's like an endurance contest.

    Our relationship works because I keep goals in mind for the two of us, and keep us moving ahead, and working on projects.
    This is more me than him but I think that's because of gender factors and less about personality.
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