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  1. #1
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Default Do 8's have hard lives?

    They eschew the notion of caring whether people like or hate them, only about being right/efficient/boss - but doesn't it make life an uphill battle?

    Not only are people not going to jump to your aid (slowing/stalling your progress) - people can join together and oust you or backstab you.

    Isn't it better to simply be diplomatic and assertive (not aggressive) and appeal to human psychology instead of stubborn insistance and intimidation?

    You can get the same result...but faster, more surely, and lasting.

    With the way I read about 8 behavior, I'd imagine that it'd be difficult for them to do anything - that everything they do, they have to struggle for. Whereas a 3 might be able to have people eager to move mountains for them. Less time struggling, more accomplishing. More efficient.
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  2. #2

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    Your starting point appears to be an "unhealthy" 8. Not all 8's have hard lives.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Of course Eights lead "hard lives." They work hard for what they get - then go to Europe and live it up for a week. The rest of us don't work as hard, the proof is that we can't afford to go to Europe every year like they do.
    "If you try to build something that is idiot-proof, the universe will build a better idiot."

  4. #4
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Your starting point appears to be an "unhealthy" 8. Not all 8's have hard lives.
    Every description I've read of 8 describes them that way - just the generic description, not of the unhealthy 8s.
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    Every description I've read of 8 describes them that way - just the generic description, not of the unhealthy 8s.
    Generic descriptions cover top to bottom, where every described behaviour isn't necessarily pertinent in all situations.

    Also, where did you get the "boss" thing? We like to be in control of ourselves and lives, where we exert control externally so no one has control over us. This doesn't necessarily mean we have to be "boss". Where there's a good lead, we can follow. Within a non-threatening environment, we don't need to exert control and let live.

    I dunno. Sounds to me like you're suggesting an 8 not be an 8, instead, moving 3 to manipulate the people within our environment. This conflicts with being a gut type and IMO, my own personal need for authenticity.

    As far as intimidation, etc., pot, kettle, black?

  6. #6
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Generic descriptions cover top to bottom, where every described behaviour isn't necessarily pertinent in all situations.

    Also, where did you get the "boss" thing? We like to be in control of ourselves and lives, where we exert control externally so no one has control over us. This doesn't necessarily mean we have to be "boss". Where there's a good lead, we can follow. Within a non-threatening environment, we don't need to exert control and let live.

    I dunno. Sounds to me like you're suggesting an 8 not be an 8, instead, moving 3 to manipulate the people within our environment. This conflicts with being a gut type and IMO, my own personal need for authenticity.
    To me, the ends justify the means. I like fast and efficient - and that's by appealing to human psychology. There's really no lying or BS to it - just ways of wording things and taking the reigns. "May I make a suggestion?" instead of "THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE'S GOING TO DO. LISTEN UP". If someone screws up, I say "Next time, try blahblahblahblah" instead of "YOU'RE FIRED, YOU FUCKING MORON. GET OUTTA HERE".

    Also, remembering to say my "please" and "thanks". All of this could be my Fe though.

    (Of course, I'm comparing a healthy 3 approach to an unhealthy 8 approach, but can you tell me what a healthy 8 would say in those two situations? Because I'm honestly not sure.)

    Although, your explanation on what control in your life entails does clarify. That's pretty much my attitude as well - I don't really care what you do, but if you're going to be in my life, be of assistance, be a team-player or get out of the way. In a nicer way of course.

    As far as intimidation, etc., pot, kettle, black?


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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    To me, the ends justify the means. I like fast and efficient. Although, your explanation on what control in your life entails does clarify. That's pretty much my attitude as well - I don't really care what you do, but if you're going to be in my life, be of assistance, be a team-player or get out of the way. In a nicer way of course.
    Where we differ is that I don't perceive people as means to an end. They don't need to be part of my team or assist me. Only be themselves and if we walk together sometimes, that's cool and if we don't, that's cool too.

    NOT ME. I AM FLUFFY.

    That porcupine's expression is too calm and unassuming!

  8. #8
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Where we differ is that I don't perceive people as means to an end. They don't need to be part of my team or assist me. Only be themselves and if we walk together sometimes, that's cool and if we don't, that's cool too.
    That's the thing, though. Connections and networking is everything - just think of all the promotions, politics, corporate ladder etc. How much does public standing account for that? A lot... I think I read a statistic that 85% of success was due to social skills. Unfortunately, it's not a meritocracy. Impressions are everything, as much as I hate to sound like a stereotypical 3, it's just so true.

    And impressions are based on what people think.

    That porcupine's expression is too calm and unassuming!
    It's plotting. oh shit...then that's an INTJ porc..
    3w4-9w1-?w6 (nearly headless nick)
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    That's the thing, though. Connections and networking is everything - just think of all the promotions, politics, etc. How much does public standing account for that? A lot. I think I read a statistic that 85% of success was due to social finesse.
    I agree within a work environment that networking is helpful but regardless, people, employees, etc., aren't tools to be used. My preference is for mutually beneficial interactions, taking into consideration that they're people and so am I.

    As far as close friendships are concerned, I know they're there for me if I really need them, where I'm there for them far more than the reverse. But don't mistake this for altruism. It's just an element of 8-ness where we prefer to make our own decisions in life without interference and get something from helping others. In the interim, we enjoy each other's friendship and connection.

    It's plotting. oh shit...that's an INTJ porc.
    Nah, no death stare!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Agent Jelly's Avatar
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    I think you're black labeling all 8s as unhealthy. Yes I admit sometimes I do lose my cool but I try very hard to remain civil and maintain common human decency. I have only meet one person who was a 3. She was the most assbackwards, unhealthy, drama-starting person I have met. Do I assume all 3s are like this? No. there are assholes and douches of every type, race, sexual orientation and ethnicity. I will say though as an 8 I do tend to piss off a lot of people with my honesty. But when eights are healthy don't they go into 2s? I very much so see myself like this, but when angered... beware, lol. Overall I wouldn't say we make life harder for ourselves. I personally think people just need to get thicker skinned and not sweat the small stuff as much.

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