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[Type 8] Do 8's have hard lives?

mrcockburn

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They eschew the notion of caring whether people like or hate them, only about being right/efficient/boss - but doesn't it make life an uphill battle?

Not only are people not going to jump to your aid (slowing/stalling your progress) - people can join together and oust you or backstab you.

Isn't it better to simply be diplomatic and assertive (not aggressive) and appeal to human psychology instead of stubborn insistance and intimidation?

You can get the same result...but faster, more surely, and lasting.

With the way I read about 8 behavior, I'd imagine that it'd be difficult for them to do anything - that everything they do, they have to struggle for. Whereas a 3 might be able to have people eager to move mountains for them. Less time struggling, more accomplishing. More efficient.
 

rav3n

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Your starting point appears to be an "unhealthy" 8. Not all 8's have hard lives.
 

Mal12345

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Of course Eights lead "hard lives." They work hard for what they get - then go to Europe and live it up for a week. The rest of us don't work as hard, the proof is that we can't afford to go to Europe every year like they do.
 

mrcockburn

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Your starting point appears to be an "unhealthy" 8. Not all 8's have hard lives.

Every description I've read of 8 describes them that way - just the generic description, not of the unhealthy 8s.
 

rav3n

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Every description I've read of 8 describes them that way - just the generic description, not of the unhealthy 8s.
Generic descriptions cover top to bottom, where every described behaviour isn't necessarily pertinent in all situations.

Also, where did you get the "boss" thing? We like to be in control of ourselves and lives, where we exert control externally so no one has control over us. This doesn't necessarily mean we have to be "boss". Where there's a good lead, we can follow. Within a non-threatening environment, we don't need to exert control and let live.

I dunno. Sounds to me like you're suggesting an 8 not be an 8, instead, moving 3 to manipulate the people within our environment. This conflicts with being a gut type and IMO, my own personal need for authenticity.

As far as intimidation, etc., pot, kettle, black? ;)
 

mrcockburn

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Generic descriptions cover top to bottom, where every described behaviour isn't necessarily pertinent in all situations.

Also, where did you get the "boss" thing? We like to be in control of ourselves and lives, where we exert control externally so no one has control over us. This doesn't necessarily mean we have to be "boss". Where there's a good lead, we can follow. Within a non-threatening environment, we don't need to exert control and let live.

I dunno. Sounds to me like you're suggesting an 8 not be an 8, instead, moving 3 to manipulate the people within our environment. This conflicts with being a gut type and IMO, my own personal need for authenticity.

To me, the ends justify the means. I like fast and efficient - and that's by appealing to human psychology. There's really no lying or BS to it - just ways of wording things and taking the reigns. "May I make a suggestion?" instead of "THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE'S GOING TO DO. LISTEN UP". If someone screws up, I say "Next time, try blahblahblahblah" instead of "YOU'RE FIRED, YOU FUCKING MORON. GET OUTTA HERE".

Also, remembering to say my "please" and "thanks". All of this could be my Fe though.

(Of course, I'm comparing a healthy 3 approach to an unhealthy 8 approach, but can you tell me what a healthy 8 would say in those two situations? Because I'm honestly not sure.)

Although, your explanation on what control in your life entails does clarify. That's pretty much my attitude as well - I don't really care what you do, but if you're going to be in my life, be of assistance, be a team-player or get out of the way. In a nicer way of course.

As far as intimidation, etc., pot, kettle, black? ;)



porcupine_1.jpg
 

rav3n

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To me, the ends justify the means. I like fast and efficient. Although, your explanation on what control in your life entails does clarify. That's pretty much my attitude as well - I don't really care what you do, but if you're going to be in my life, be of assistance, be a team-player or get out of the way. In a nicer way of course.
Where we differ is that I don't perceive people as means to an end. They don't need to be part of my team or assist me. Only be themselves and if we walk together sometimes, that's cool and if we don't, that's cool too.

NOT ME. I AM FLUFFY.

porcupine_1.jpg
:laugh: That porcupine's expression is too calm and unassuming!
 

mrcockburn

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Where we differ is that I don't perceive people as means to an end. They don't need to be part of my team or assist me. Only be themselves and if we walk together sometimes, that's cool and if we don't, that's cool too.

That's the thing, though. Connections and networking is everything - just think of all the promotions, politics, corporate ladder etc. How much does public standing account for that? A lot... I think I read a statistic that 85% of success was due to social skills. Unfortunately, it's not a meritocracy. Impressions are everything, as much as I hate to sound like a stereotypical 3, it's just so true.

And impressions are based on what people think.

:laugh: That porcupine's expression is too calm and unassuming!

It's plotting. oh shit...then that's an INTJ porc..
 

rav3n

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That's the thing, though. Connections and networking is everything - just think of all the promotions, politics, etc. How much does public standing account for that? A lot. I think I read a statistic that 85% of success was due to social finesse.
I agree within a work environment that networking is helpful but regardless, people, employees, etc., aren't tools to be used. My preference is for mutually beneficial interactions, taking into consideration that they're people and so am I.

As far as close friendships are concerned, I know they're there for me if I really need them, where I'm there for them far more than the reverse. But don't mistake this for altruism. It's just an element of 8-ness where we prefer to make our own decisions in life without interference and get something from helping others. In the interim, we enjoy each other's friendship and connection.

It's plotting. oh shit...that's an INTJ porc.
Nah, no death stare! ;)
 

Agent Jelly

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I think you're black labeling all 8s as unhealthy. Yes I admit sometimes I do lose my cool but I try very hard to remain civil and maintain common human decency. I have only meet one person who was a 3. She was the most assbackwards, unhealthy, drama-starting person I have met. Do I assume all 3s are like this? No. there are assholes and douches of every type, race, sexual orientation and ethnicity. I will say though as an 8 I do tend to piss off a lot of people with my honesty. But when eights are healthy don't they go into 2s? I very much so see myself like this, but when angered... beware, lol. Overall I wouldn't say we make life harder for ourselves. I personally think people just need to get thicker skinned and not sweat the small stuff as much.
 

mrcockburn

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I think you're black labeling all 8s as unhealthy. Yes I admit sometimes I do lose my cool but I try very hard to remain civil and maintain common human decency. I have only meet one person who was a 3. She was the most assbackwards, unhealthy, drama-starting person I have met. Do I assume all 3s are like this? No. there are assholes and douches of every type, race, sexual orientation and ethnicity. I will say though as an 8 I do tend to piss off a lot of people with my honesty. But when eights are healthy don't they go into 2s? I very much so see myself like this, but when angered... beware, lol. Overall I wouldn't say we make life harder for ourselves. I personally think people just need to get thicker skinned and not sweat the small stuff as much.

But the reality is that people are oversensitive, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

As for losing my cool...I have never, (at least since I was a bratty 7 year old) ever lost my cool in front of people. Well, I take that back. I do get short/terse and answer with smartass remarks if someone really makes me lose patience. But as far as swearing/yelling/namecalling or showing visible anger? If I did that even once, there's no recovering from it. I'd be done for. Forever known as some psycho who threw a tantrum. Who would respect that? No one. They'd just recommend a good mental hospital. So I keep myself reeled in...

Again, I'm not judging you or anything. Just putting my reasoning out there.
 

Agent Jelly

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But the reality is that people are oversensitive, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

As for losing my cool...I have never, (at least since I was a bratty 7 year old) ever lost my cool in front of people. Well, I take that back. I do get short/terse and answer with smartass remarks if someone really makes me lose patience. But as far as swearing/yelling/namecalling or showing visible anger? If I did that even once, there's no recovering from it. I'd be done for. Forever known as some psycho who threw a tantrum. Who would respect that? No one. They'd just recommend a good mental hospital. So I keep myself reeled in...

Again, I'm not judging you or anything. Just putting my reasoning out there.

sounds like you just dont like 8s. or you take everything waaaayyyy to literal.
 

CzeCze

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As soon as I saw the title in the question I was gonna answer 'No, but 8's make lives hard for OTHER people'

Hwahwahwahwaha.

:wipes tears of laughter from her eyes:
 

King sns

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They eschew the notion of caring whether people like or hate them, only about being right/efficient/boss - but doesn't it make life an uphill battle?

Not only are people not going to jump to your aid (slowing/stalling your progress) - people can join together and oust you or backstab you.

Isn't it better to simply be diplomatic and assertive (not aggressive) and appeal to human psychology instead of stubborn insistance and intimidation?

You can get the same result...but faster, more surely, and lasting.

With the way I read about 8 behavior, I'd imagine that it'd be difficult for them to do anything - that everything they do, they have to struggle for. Whereas a 3 might be able to have people eager to move mountains for them. Less time struggling, more accomplishing. More efficient.

I don't know. I guess it depends on whether or not other aspects of their personality are in conflict.
 

Kierva

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They eschew the notion of caring whether people like or hate them, only about being right/efficient/boss - but doesn't it make life an uphill battle?

Not only are people not going to jump to your aid (slowing/stalling your progress) - people can join together and oust you or backstab you.

Isn't it better to simply be diplomatic and assertive (not aggressive) and appeal to human psychology instead of stubborn insistance and intimidation?

You can get the same result...but faster, more surely, and lasting.

With the way I read about 8 behavior, I'd imagine that it'd be difficult for them to do anything - that everything they do, they have to struggle for. Whereas a 3 might be able to have people eager to move mountains for them. Less time struggling, more accomplishing. More efficient.

First of all, not all 8s all aggressive bullheaded pricks as you described.

Like what Jenaphor has described, if you want to tag along, fine. If not, it's cool.

You're describing professional life. Professional life =/= life at home =/= quality of overall life.
 

rav3n

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To me, the ends justify the means. I like fast and efficient - and that's by appealing to human psychology. There's really no lying or BS to it - just ways of wording things and taking the reigns. "May I make a suggestion?" instead of "THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE'S GOING TO DO. LISTEN UP". If someone screws up, I say "Next time, try blahblahblahblah" instead of "YOU'RE FIRED, YOU FUCKING MORON. GET OUTTA HERE".

Also, remembering to say my "please" and "thanks". All of this could be my Fe though.

(Of course, I'm comparing a healthy 3 approach to an unhealthy 8 approach, but can you tell me what a healthy 8 would say in those two situations? Because I'm honestly not sure.)

Although, your explanation on what control in your life entails does clarify. That's pretty much my attitude as well - I don't really care what you do, but if you're going to be in my life, be of assistance, be a team-player or get out of the way. In a nicer way of course.
Hmm...looks like you've edited this post a great deal since I responded to it the first time. How 3! :laugh:

The first paragraph made me laugh! Pretty standard practice for management positions to treat employees with a reasonable level of respect, at least within professional environments beyond the legal profession and some doctors to their "underlings". A manager who has anger management issues is rarely one who lasts long or moves upwards very far, within white collar environments. Anger management issues and incompetence aren't the sole domain of 8's.

Please and thank-you's? This is common courtesy. Some people are raised with it, others aren't. Now you're being ridiculous.
 

mrcockburn

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Whateverrr...:laugh:

I'm pretty new to enneagram & I don't think I know any 8's, so I'm starting from square one here.

Seems the description exaggerate you then. That's why I'm here, to have any resulting misconceptions cleared up. :newwink:
 

Agent Jelly

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Please and thank-you's? This is common courtesy. Some people are raised with it, others aren't. Now you're being ridiculous.

Common courtesy that isn't so common. This is actually one of my biggest pet peeves, lack of manners.

The best description I ever read of the ennegram type 8 was when I took the paid test from the enneagram institute. I really wish I could post it for you but when my yahoo account was hacked in Feb. I lost the results. A lot of the free descriptions are crap, but that one really put into words what I was never able to into words about myself. I would recommend looking up some famous type 8s. Martin Luther King, Jr. for example was an 8...
 

rav3n

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Common courtesy that isn't so common. This is actually one of my biggest pet peeves, lack of manners.

The best description I ever read of the ennegram type 8 was when I took the paid test from the enneagram institute. I really wish I could post it for you but when my yahoo account was hacked in Feb. I lost the results. A lot of the free descriptions are crap, but that one really put into words what I was never able to into words about myself. I would recommend looking up some famous type 8s. Martin Luther King, Jr. for example was an 8...
Any chance you could approach them for a copy of your paid results? Many companies retain closed file client records for up to seven years to abide by the longest legal term requirements since the term can fluctuate from none to seven years, reliant on jurisdiction.
 

ceecee

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They eschew the notion of caring whether people like or hate them, only about being right/efficient/boss - but doesn't it make life an uphill battle?

Not only are people not going to jump to your aid (slowing/stalling your progress) - people can join together and oust you or backstab you.

Isn't it better to simply be diplomatic and assertive (not aggressive) and appeal to human psychology instead of stubborn insistance and intimidation?

You can get the same result...but faster, more surely, and lasting.

With the way I read about 8 behavior, I'd imagine that it'd be difficult for them to do anything - that everything they do, they have to struggle for. Whereas a 3 might be able to have people eager to move mountains for them. Less time struggling, more accomplishing. More efficient.

I certainly don't want to be the boss if I feel leadership is competent. I want to be in control of myself and my own environment. I do not like anyone walking in and telling me this is how it's gonna be - just like, I'm sure you don't like it. Diplomacy is something that's learned over time and not every 8 will get good at it but I am sure most see it ends up being the most efficient way to handle things and people.

As far as people liking or hating us, I think that's only applicable to the people closest to them. That doesn't mean we go out of our way to make people hate us but it depends on the person and their relevancy in our lives. My ex-husband probably hates me but he has no bearing on my life, for example. I truly don't care.
 
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