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Thread: e5 and Emotions

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    E5's my head tritype. It's helpful from the perspective of being an instinctual 8w7 sx/sp as gut type, since detachment preserves the needed control and modifies the reactionary "all in" factor.

    Consider this Pitseleh. The more "in" you are at the onset reliant on your initial assessment of red flaggage, the sooner you find out someone else is a schmuck. The minute they start to push your vulnerability triggers, is the minute you can detach and shut down softer emotions.
    hahahahaha I like the positive spin on things. This is the reason why I love ENTJs.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    People consistently gave me a reason not to trust them. I either semi hated or hated the people taking care of me so I coped by engaging my mind for hours on end. I can totally relate with the relationships, I start opening up to people and then as soon, I get uncomfortable, I pull back and don't talk to them for months or let it dissolve. On some occasions, I have noticed that I try to sabotage relationships to test the person or to passive aggressively get the person out of my life.
    I try not to do that, but sometimes I do want to know where someone stands with me, so I'll "ease up on the self control" and put something out there, to see what they do with it... something not too big, in case they let me down. Then, if they pass, I'll give them a little more to see, and watch their response.

    I do have that weird "push/pull" thing where I can put a lot of myself out there, then feel like I said too much and want to take it back... because it's no longer under my control. I tended to chalk it up as the sx/sp conflict, though. Do you think it could be?

    Overall, I do "trust" that my closest people would not intentionally try to harm me but not really with my vulnerabilities.... I end up being the one listening to other people's drama and struggles. It's not very fun.
    Same here. I do actually find it fun and affirming to be able to listen to others and help affirm them and give them a new way to look at things / see their situation differently. But sometimes it gets very lonely, and sometimes I just get people who want to latch on and not give anything back. How would you deal with that?

    Let's drink to e5 loneliness.
    Bottoms up! Yeah, let me know when and where, and it's martinis by the round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    With me, it's always about countering something or someone who manages to paint such a narrow stroke with such a broad brush.
    We are human beings. What I mean is even INFJs and e5 and others who need to withdraw have a counter instinct to connect. What else are we doing here talking then?
    I don't believe we are static or stuck in the descriptions of these personality types, not entirely.
    They should point us to our weakness and show us a way to grow, not to stagnate because we relate, or don't relate, to some point that has been made by someone else. How Extroverted ,lol
    I think you're gonna have to expect an INTP to challenge ideas that seem inconsistent, if they bother to engage at all -- in this case, any comments made about Fives that don't seem to make sense or seem inconsistent with the known theory. It's not hard to fix; all you have to do is explain the logic, so it can either be shown to be coherent or else further expose itself as not.

    To me, that's a side issue from how such a theory should be used, which is more of a value statement and not a fact statement.

    I do think, though, that if a theory is incoherent, trying to use it to help people can easily lead them astray rather than actually being helpful in the long term.

    (Other than that, I happen to appreciate personality theories because they can be applied toward personal growth.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm not really sure what you are trying to say about Fives in this thread, or what you even mean about "Fe being sandwiched between Ni and Ti."
    Well, I think it was simply a less technical way of saying that behavior is not a constant and some type 5's may deviate from the 'average' type 5 description (represented in this thread) when you take all variations into consideration; such as a 4 or a 6 wing; sx, sp, so. You've also got to look at what level of development (health) a person is at. I'll throw in that a healthy 5 is going to look significantly different from an unhealthy 5.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    hahahahaha I like the positive spin on things. This is the reason why I love ENTJs.


    There are three types of people in the world:
    1. Wow, you're amazing!
    2. You're okay.
    3. Fuck you and all your crappy ancestors who bred in a barn, to create such a miserable example of purported humanity.


    So, the sooner you find out it's a barn breeder, the sooner you detach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Well, I think it was simply a less technical way of saying that behavior is not a constant and some type 5's may deviate from the 'average' type 5 description (represented in this thread) when you take all variations of type 5's into consideration; such as a 4 or a 6 wing; sx, sp, so. You've also got to look at what level of development (health) a person is at.
    Thank You NG...
    You say it better than I do.
    "Narrow strokes with broad brushes" seemed pretty "technical" to me.
    I speak with imagery and some people can't decode it maybe?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Well, I think it was simply a less technical way of saying that behavior is not a constant and some type 5's may deviate from the 'average' type 5 description (represented in this thread) when you take all variations into consideration; such as a 4 or a 6 wing; sx, sp, so. You've also got to look at what level of development (health) a person is at.
    IOW, he was trying to say that Fe in relationship to Ni or Ti looks different than Fe by itself?

    I do agree that functions look different based on what company they are keeping; however, that still has little to do with Fe-primaries (Primaries, mind you) whose natural instinct is to engage when unsure, to claim to be Fives... a type that very heavily correlates to Ti, whose natural instinct is to withdraw when unsure. That's just basic Enneagram theory. Fives withdraw. Fe tends to show up as Two or Eight, and Two's accommodate, and Eight's assert.

    I mean, that's not my "personal pet peeve" here... that is actual statistics of type. Out of all the Enneagram types, statistically, Fives seem to be MOST correlated to a particular MBTI type -- and that type is INTP. That reality still has to be explained somehow, if one is going to make such a huge exception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I speak with imagery and some people can't decode it maybe?
    No, I honestly can't decode it. I do speak in imagery too and love metaphor and roundabout ways of saying things, but your comments/patterns of speaking are difficult for me to unravel sometimes.

    I think I followed NG's comments, though.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    I do have that weird "push/pull" thing where I can put a lot of myself out there, then feel like I said too much and want to take it back... because it's no longer under my control. I tended to chalk it up as the sx/sp conflict, though. Do you think it could be?
    I am not sure because I am SP/SO. Maybe it's the need for self-preservation with the desire to reach out (socially or sexually). Aren't 5's usually about self-preservation with all the self-control, trust issues (speaking generally, not enneagram definitions)? At the same time humans generally want to reach out and bond with others. It might be a conflict of interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Same here. I do actually find it fun and affirming to be able to listen to others and help affirm them and give them a new way to look at things / see their situation differently. But sometimes it gets very lonely, and sometimes I just get people who want to latch on and not give anything back. How would you deal with that?
    I just go have some alone time and then rise back up out of my hermit cave when I am ready to face them again. If it's bad, I lessen my contact with them but it is a balance cutting it off and not being being dismissive.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    I'm not really sure what you are trying to say about Fives in this thread, or what you even mean about "Fe being sandwiched between Ni and Ti."
    Lol same.

    I'm a 4w5 but I most often score as a 5 on tests. 4 holds more weight for my personality because it's heart (image) focused, along with 3 and 2. On the other hand, 5 is more centered around problem solving, following suite with 6 and 7. For me, my "fiviness" proceeds from my "fouriness" because being a problem solver is the image I most create for myself. In fact, it's not uncommon for me to overturn concepts the way the "iconoclast" does just because I can.

    I think that on occasion, 5s become attached to the idea of being detached, and in the process start fizzling out like a malfunctioning robot. I've known a few that just internally combust and skitter off like a flaming UFO because I didn't subscribe to their little "mental map" of reality. I guess when you throw chewed gum in their cartography, they start to get attached to in on all fronts. Lol.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    I just go have some alone time and then rise back up out of my hermit cave when I am ready to face them again. If it's bad, I lessen my contact with them but it is a balance cutting it off and not being being dismissive.
    How does your extraversion play a part in that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    IOW, he was trying to say that Fe in relationship to Ni or Ti looks different than Fe by itself?

    I do agree that functions look different based on what company they are keeping; however, that still has little to do with Fe-primaries (Primaries, mind you) whose natural instinct is to engage when unsure, to claim to be Fives... a type that very heavily correlates to Ti, whose natural instinct is to withdraw when unsure. That's just basic Enneagram theory. Fives withdraw. Fe tends to show up as Two or Eight, and Two's accommodate, and Eight's assert.

    I mean, that's not my "personal pet peeve" here... that is actual statistics of type. Out of all the Enneagram types, statistically, Fives seem to be MOST correlated to a particular MBTI type -- and that type is INTP. That reality still has to be explained somehow, if one is going to make such a huge exception.



    No, I honestly can't decode it. I do speak in imagery too and love metaphor and roundabout ways of saying things, but your comments/patterns of speaking are difficult for me to unravel sometimes.

    I think I followed NG's comments, though.
    OK so I will try to explain.

    I was trying to say that Both Ni and TI are naturally introverted and anti social.
    Thus the Fe is the counter to completely closing off and also the vessel for communicating what Ni and Ti ascertain.
    As with 5 being analytical and withdrawing in nature.
    Both e5 and Ni/Ti are anti social by nature.
    However human beings are not anti social by nature.
    So even the most extreme and rare types such as INFJs and e5s still have a social drive built in.
    I am describing this social drive as Fe or w4 w6.
    Ignoring them is perilous and unhealthy.

    So when someone starts speaking about things from a very unhealthy perspective, but is someone who is extremely graceful in their explanation,
    and I am not sure If I can speak to this person directly. Then I speak in metaphor and hope this person hears my words and remembers they are an extreme case and thus, that a more balanced perspective needs to be presented, even if I am an extreme case myself.

    I will add.. If you like metaphor , what about the horse/emotion comments.?
    One person said it was "powerful".

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