[Type 7] Having doubts about my enneatype again =(

[Mal12345]

The ENTJ portrait from personalitypages.com meshes perfectly well with much of Elf's self-description:

"ENTJs love to interact with people. As Extroverts, they're energized and stimulated primarily externally. There's nothing more enjoyable and satisfying to the ENTJ than having a lively, challenging conversation. They especially respect people who are able to stand up to the ENTJ, and argue persuasively for their point of view. There aren't too many people who will do so, however, because the ENTJ is a very forceful and dynamic presence who has a tremendous amount of self-confidence and excellent verbal communication skills. Even the most confident individuals may experience moments of self-doubt when debating a point with an ENTJ."

It's nice to feel respected. Of course, as the last sentence indicates, he has done a good job of trying to break my confidence in his e-type. And of course I have experienced self-doubt during the course of reading his responses. But in the long run, I feel that I am in the right by maintaining an objective stance that takes into account all the evidence he has presented, and not just the evidence that supports my position.

 

[King sns]

Alright, well I'm off to go see what Saturned is doing. Gotta make sure the cyanide pills are in a safe place hidden from both of us.

 

[brainheart]

So why isn't he an entj?

 

[Kierva]

The ENTJ portrait from personalitypages.com meshes perfectly well with much of Elf's self-description:

"ENTJs love to interact with people. As Extroverts, they're energized and stimulated primarily externally. There's nothing more enjoyable and satisfying to the ENTJ than having a lively, challenging conversation. They especially respect people who are able to stand up to the ENTJ, and argue persuasively for their point of view. There aren't too many people who will do so, however, because the ENTJ is a very forceful and dynamic presence who has a tremendous amount of self-confidence and excellent verbal communication skills. Even the most confident individuals may experience moments of self-doubt when debating a point with an ENTJ."

It's nice to feel respected. Of course, as the last sentence indicates, he has done a good job of trying to break my confidence in his e-type. And of course I have experienced self-doubt during the course of reading his responses. But in the long run, I feel that I am in the right by maintaining an objective stance that takes into account all the evidence he has presented, and not just the evidence that supports my position.

That's a rather flowery description you got there.

There's the ENTJ JCF analysis on PerN and while I don't relate to it fully (as anyone else shouldn't) I think it's closest to being accurate. At this moment I only have the ESTP profile as a PDF.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Elfboy is not an extrovert, the external worl is draining for him. He is an INFP, try to behave like an NTJ.

 

[brainheart]

Ok, if you say so. Deal is, most ixfps (and exfps for that matter) I can relate to. I don't feel that connection with him. That's my fi ration doing its work there. Withdrawn types, same situation...

 

[Mal12345]

Elfboy is not an extrovert, the external worl is draining for him. He is an INFP, try to behave like an NTJ.

EXACTLY. Or close enough. That's what makes the MBTI so darn useless at times.

 

[brainheart]

Ok then maybe an ixxj of some form...?

 

[Mal12345]

Ok then maybe an ixxj of some form...?

Using the x format, I would say XNXX, because only the N remains constant.

Again, that's what makes the MBTI so useless at times, because XNXX is literally meaningless for determining type. The MBTI does not gain the higher perspective of explaining the external shell of a type. Only the Enneagram can accomplish this, not just through type-descriptions, but through theory. The 3-6-9 shell types - the 3 is an empty shell filled with potential but not actual or, better, sincere values; the 6 shell contains repressed values substituting another's values for their own (Christian values, or Objectivism); the 9 shell selflessly supports others as it represses its own self with its potential for aggression (the gut center).

 

[Elfboy]

Ok, if you say so. Deal is, most ixfps (and exfps for that matter) I can relate to. I don't feel that connection with him. That's my fi ration doing its work there. Withdrawn types, same situation...

if you are a 4 and I am a 1w9 or 8w9, it would make sense that we don't relate very much (I think that's why you see me as unhealthy)

 

[Mal12345]

Using the x format, I would say XNXX, because only the N remains constant.

Again, that's what makes the MBTI so useless at times, because XNXX is literally meaningless for determining type. The MBTI does not gain the higher perspective of explaining the external shell of a type. Only the Enneagram can accomplish this, not just through type-descriptions, but through theory. The 3-6-9 shell types - the 3 is an empty shell filled with potential but not actual or, better, sincere values; the 6 shell contains repressed values substituting another's values for their own (Christian values, or Objectivism); the 9 shell selflessly supports others as it represses its own self with its potential for aggression (the gut center).

I should explain the 9 shell a bit better. The 9 represses its potential for aggression, but in doing so represses every aspect of the self and not just the aggressive side. In so losing the self through repression, the 9 compensates by attempting to merge with the self of another.

 

[Elfboy]

Ok, then it's possible.

You could also watch a list of 1w9 Sx/So here: http://www.typologycentral.com/foru.../48302-giant-list-sx-so-people-type-them.html I think if you still remate with them despite you have a totally different instinctual variant, that means it's your type. To be buisnesslike and to like money is coherent with vbeing 1w9, I think Scrooge is 1w9, and Ayn Rand as well.

BTW, nobody is untypable.

scrooge and ayn rand are 1w9? if that's the case, I relate to both of them a ton (less so to scrooge, I believe in expanding one's means, not living below it)
as for the other videos, I related a lot to Joan Sutherland but much less to Katherine Hepburn. I'll watch the rest when I have a longer attention span

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Yes, Ayn Rand was 1w9 So/Sp. Scrooge is So/Sx or Sx/So, perhaps. Joan Sutherland might be INFP.

 

[brainheart]

if you are a 4 and I am a 1w9 or 8w9, it would make sense that we don't relate very much (I think that's why you see me as unhealthy)

The only reason I think you are unhealthy is because you are endlessly struggling to discover your enneatype. You seem lost, a quality I doubt would exist in a high-functioning type. As I said, I relate to dom and aux fi-users of any type, and to withdrawn types. As far as 1 goes , when I read the riso hudson wisdom of the enneagram description it resonated strongly. 1w9 especially. So I doubt that's it.

My guess is you're not a ixfp or a xxfp. Similarly, my guess is you're not a 4 or 5. I would not rule out 9, just cause there can be a wide variety of mbti types that are 9. But if you are, I doubt you're a sp/sx, maybe sp/so or so/sp. 3 or 6 seems more likely to me.

I'd like to think I'm a four, but I put others needs before my own too much. I lose myself, forget what's important, go with the flow too much, and in general, am just too silent about my needs and wants. My major problem is my lack of inertia, wasting my time on stupid ocd bad habits like this website. I would do better to emulate the four more, in all honesty. But I'm scared to be honest.

 

[King sns]

The only reason I think you are unhealthy is because you are endlessly struggling to discover your enneatype. You seem lost, a quality I doubt would exist in a high-functioning type. As I said, I relate to dom and aux fi-users of any type, and to withdrawn types. As far as 1 goes , when I read the riso hudson wisdom of the enneagram description it resonated strongly. 1w9 especially. So I doubt that's it.

My guess is you're not a ixfp or a xxfp. Similarly, my guess is you're not a 4 or 5. I would not rule out 9, just cause there can be a wide variety of mbti types that are 9. But if you are, I doubt you're a sp/sx, maybe sp/so or so/sp. 3 or 6 seems more likely to me.

I'd like to think I'm a four, but I put others needs before my own too much. I lose myself, forget what's important, go with the flow too much, and in general, am just too silent about my needs and wants. My major problem is my lack of inertia, wasting my time on stupid ocd bad habits like this website. I would do better to emulate the four more, in all honesty. But I'm scared to be honest.

+1. Easier to be healthy when you know what you're working with. He's also a teenager though.. Needs to try on a bunch of different hats for size, and that part is normal.

 

[brainheart]

I should explain the 9 shell a bit better. The 9 represses its potential for aggression, but in doing so represses every aspect of the self and not just the aggressive side. In so losing the self through repression, the 9 compensates by attempting to merge with the self of another.

Yes. Finding yourself in others. That person is ' more you' than you are.

 

[Mal12345]

scrooge and ayn rand are 1w9? if that's the case, I relate to both of them a ton (less so to scrooge, I believe in expanding one's means, not living below it)
as for the other videos, I related a lot to Joan Sutherland but much less to Katherine Hepburn. I'll watch the rest when I have a longer attention span

I hesitate to address this part in particular. But you, sir, are no Ayn Rand. You may relate strongly to her values, but in doing so, you repress your own personal value-system in true type 6 fashion. Because with Ayn Rand or any other type 1 there is more than just the value-system, there is a motive and a desire [and a fear] as Savage Idealist pointed out.

Ayn Rand, as a 1w9, had a dual purpose in her fiction writing which is easily discernible. She created a portrait of an "ideal man," the archetype of that which her 9-wing desires complete identity with, and who perfectly expresses her unique and individual value system. Her major works, according to her, were intended to attract this individual, who is always a male, to her.

But the 9-wing reveals her motive in obtaining merger of self which must include a total loss of individuality. In this way, type 1 Ayn Rand could then divest herself of the intense moral responsibility of her type 1 way of life, of having to live up to her ideals, and finally relax and enjoy life by integrating 1 to 7. (There is also a gender issue involved in this, which has to do with Rand trying to lead what she would consider a masculine role in life, while her heart's desire was to surrender to the female side of her psyche. Much of the romance in her works includes a strong 'surrender' theme.)

I have seen none of this in any of your self-descriptions or bio. Apart from a very early phase having to do with Nietzsche, Rand did not come across at all as a shell type as you do. She was "Ayn Rand" all the way down.

 

[brainheart]

+1. Easier to be healthy when you know what you're working with. He's also a teenager though.. Needs to try on a bunch of different hats for size, and that part is normal.

Yeah. I forget he's a teenager.

 

[Mal12345]

By the way, I've spent decades of my life studying Rand and her works, even if I don't agree with her philosophy. I agreed with it at one time, but eventually decided that, even if her instincts toward values are correct, she was not talented enough at philosophy to rationally justify them.

Ayn Rand should have stayed with fiction writing. I would have loved to read more of those kind of works.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

I hesitate to address this part in particular. But you, sir, are no Ayn Rand. You may relate strongly to her values, but in doing so, you repress your own personal value-system in true type 6 fashion. Because with Ayn Rand or any other type 1 there is more than just the value-system, there is a motive and a desire [and a fear] as Savage Idealist pointed out.

Ayn Rand, as a 1w9, had a dual purpose in her fiction writing which is easily discernible. She created a portrait of an "ideal man," the archetype of that which her 9-wing desires complete identity with, and who perfectly expresses her unique and individual value system. Her major works, according to her, were intended to attract this individual, who is always a male, to her.

But the 9-wing reveals her motive in obtaining merger of self which must include a total loss of individuality. In this way, type 1 Ayn Rand could then divest herself of the intense moral responsibility of her type 1 way of life, of having to live up to her ideals, and finally relax and enjoy life by integrating 1 to 7. (There is also a gender issue involved in this, which has to do with Rand trying to lead what she would consider a masculine role in life, while her heart's desire was to surrender to the female side of her psyche. Much of the romance in her works includes a strong 'surrender' theme.)

I have seen none of this in any of your self-descriptions or bio. Apart from a very early phase having to do with Nietzsche, Rand did not come across at all as a shell type as you do. She was "Ayn Rand" all the way down.

You seem specialised in wall of text and indigest intelectual masturbation.