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  • 8w9

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    4 22.22%
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  1. #301
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    OK, let's try this one from International Ennegram, then:

    1 - The defensive coping strategy at the root of Type One's makeup is based on the internalization of a critical and judgmental parental voice. This voice is designed to call attention to and correct one's behavior before it becomes punishable. In terms of strengths, Ones are typically reliable, analytical, and moral. They often demonstrate integrity (consistent adherence to a set of values) and a desire to improve things for the good of all. Challenges for Ones include dealing with their own anger, managing their perfectionism, and being overly critical of self and others.

    3 - The defensive coping strategy driving the Three is based on an early experience of being valued for what they did, not who they were. They perform and achieve in order to earn the approval and respect of others. Being preoccupied with doing, Threes can often be unaware of the fact that they numb themselves to their own emotions, because feelings can get in the way of doing and achieving. Strengths: Threes can be industrious, energetic, and attractive. Challenges: They can be workaholics, unaware of their real feelings, and unable to slow down and simply be.

    4 - The defensive coping strategy centers around focusing on what is missing or lost as a way of avoiding feelings related to the hope for an idealized connection that may go unfulfilled. There is a focus on what is distant, special, and desired and an aversion to the ordinary, the mundane, and the everyday reality of what is. Strengths: Fours can be emotionally strong, authentic, artistic, and sensitive. Challenges: Fours can be entitled, dramatic, dissatisfied in relationships, and depressed.

    6 - Coping strategy: Typically, Sixes grew up with authorities they believed were untrustworthy or unpredictable and felt they had to be watchful to survive. Consequently, Sixes have developed a keen ability to sense danger. There are two versions of Sixes: phobic and counter-phobic. Phobic Sixes are actively fearful, often withdrawing to feel safe, while still remaining vigilant. Counter-phobic Sixes may not be conscious of their fear (although it is still present), and instead automatically move to confront perceived threats or problems, as a way to prove that they are not fearful. In reality, both the phobic and counter-phobic reactions can be seen in most Sixes, although individual Sixes will tend to gravitate toward one end of the phobic versus counter-phobic continuum. Strengths: Sixes are often intuitive, loyal, analytical, and have the ability to challenge authority (counter-phobic) or see through false pretenses. Challenges: They may be overly suspicious or paranoid may project their own thoughts feelings and motives onto others, often have issues with trust, and may get stuck in self-doubt or excessive questioning.

    7 - Coping strategy: The Seven coping strategy centers on avoiding fear and other negative experiences. They do this by reframing something fearful, negative or uncomfortable as something positive. They may also move toward the source of fear or discomfort in order to charm and hopefully disarm it. Strengths: Sevens are usually adventurous, fun, positive, upbeat, and optimistic. Challenges: It can be difficult for many Sevens to make and keep commitments or deal with pain: They often believe the following: Why feel bad or suffer when there is the choice to be happy? Sevens also have difficulty staying focused or dealing with emotionally charged interactions.

    8 - Coping strategy: As children, Eights often lived in combative environments where weakness was punished and they had to be strong to survive. As a result, Eights tend to lead with a strong and potent self-presentation and to hide or deny their own vulnerability. Strengths: Eights tend to be strong, powerful, commanding, energetic, and intense. Challenges: They can also have difficulty containing their own energy and anger, be controlling, and be unaware of their own vulnerabilities.
    a see a little 8, a little 4, a little 7 and a little 1, but really a lot of any of them
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  2. #302
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    i don't know if maybe i'm odd one out but i don't think that i would personally be able to recognize my type on those lists. it's too subconscious for me. i identify consciously most with 3 on the first list and 7, 4, and 3 on the second. not that it's not great to have the info, viridian, and maybe it'll be very helpful for elfboy, it just occurs to me that i am not able to consciously see my own patterns in them, because the 6 impulse is rooted so deeply. if you asked me outright if i thought the world was a very dangerous place and i had no footing, i would probably laugh and say that sounds overdramatic. but that's definitely a baseline premise i operate on - i am constantly preoccupied with stability, in one way or another.

    aaand now that i've been unhelpful i guess i should try to be helpful

    i guess what i found most identifiable with personally was the "mid-level" traits - not the superficial outward images ("businessman" for 6, etc) or the deep, core cycles, but the average motivations and negative behaviors. for example, 6 being defensive, evasive, and anxious; cautious, indecisive, reactive, and defiant; problems with self-doubt and suspicion. i can see this manifest most clearly in close/intimate relationships - i figure cause i'm sx-first. i stole those adjectives from enneagraminstitution, i'll post the ones for the other types here as well. i'm sure if you're anything like me, elfboy, you've read the damn EI descriptions 100 times, but maybe it'd be helpful to just see these adjectives in isolation. worth a shot, at least.

    1 - controlled, careful, critical, perfectionistic; afraid of making a mistake; problems with resentment and impatience.
    2 - demonstrative, sentimental, flattering; need to be needed; problems with possessiveness and acknowledging own needs.
    3 - image-conscious, status-conscious; overly concerned with others' opinions; problems with workaholism and competitiveness.
    4 - dramatic, self-absorbed, temperamental; feel exempt from ordinary life; problems with melancholy and self-indulgence.
    5 - secretive, isolated, detached, high-strung; preoccupied with their thoughts; problems with eccentricity, nihilism and isolation.
    6 - anxious, suspicious, defensive, evasive; runs on stress while complaining about it; problems with self-doubt and suspicion.
    7 - spontaneous, acquisitive, scattered, undisciplined; become distracted and exhausted; problems with impatience and impulse.
    8 - confrontational, ego-centric, domineering, intimidating; want control of environment; problems with temper and having a "shell".
    9 - complacent, spacey; simplify problems and upset; too willing to go along with others; problems with inertia and stubbornness.


    some of the other things that helped me - dunno if they'll help you elfboy, but maybe we'll get lucky - i nicked these lists from assorted places on the internet and have edited them, i claim no authority -

    Hornevian groups (social response):
    High responders (7, 3, 8) assert towards their nurturers, who reinforce their ego.
    Middle responders (6, 2, 1) comply with their nurturers, who reinforce their superego.
    Low responders (5, 4, 9) withdraw from their nurturers, who overwhelm their id.


    Harmonic groups (response to conflict):
    Competent types (5, 1, 3) try to control conflict.
    Reactive types (4, 6, 8) engage with conflict.
    Optimistic types (9, 2, 7) withdraw from conflict.


    just food for thought, all of it

  3. #303
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    based off of this, 4 or 8
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    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  4. #304
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i don't know if maybe i'm odd one out but i don't think that i would personally be able to recognize my type on those lists. it's too subconscious for me. i identify consciously most with 3 on the first list and 7, 4, and 3 on the second. not that it's not great to have the info, viridian, and maybe it'll be very helpful for elfboy, it just occurs to me that i am not able to consciously see my own patterns in them, because the 6 impulse is rooted so deeply. if you asked me outright if i thought the world was a very dangerous place and i had no footing, i would probably laugh and say that sounds overdramatic. but that's definitely a baseline premise i operate on - i am constantly preoccupied with stability, in one way or another.

    aaand now that i've been unhelpful i guess i should try to be helpful

    i guess what i found most identifiable with personally was the "mid-level" traits - not the superficial outward images ("businessman" for 6, etc) or the deep, core cycles, but the average motivations and negative behaviors. for example, 6 being defensive, evasive, and anxious; cautious, indecisive, reactive, and defiant; problems with self-doubt and suspicion. i can see this manifest most clearly in close/intimate relationships - i figure cause i'm sx-first. i stole those adjectives from enneagraminstitution, i'll post the ones for the other types here as well. i'm sure if you're anything like me, elfboy, you've read the damn EI descriptions 100 times, but maybe it'd be helpful to just see these adjectives in isolation. worth a shot, at least.

    1 - controlled, careful, critical, perfectionistic; afraid of making a mistake; problems with resentment and impatience.
    2 - demonstrative, sentimental, flattering; need to be needed; problems with possessiveness and acknowledging own needs.
    3 - image-conscious, status-conscious; overly concerned with others' opinions; problems with workaholism and competitiveness.
    4 - dramatic, self-absorbed, temperamental; feel exempt from ordinary life; problems with melancholy and self-indulgence.
    5 - secretive, isolated, detached, high-strung; preoccupied with their thoughts; problems with eccentricity, nihilism and isolation.
    6 - anxious, suspicious, defensive, evasive; runs on stress while complaining about it; problems with self-doubt and suspicion.
    7 - spontaneous, acquisitive, scattered, undisciplined; become distracted and exhausted; problems with impatience and impulse.
    8 - confrontational, ego-centric, domineering, intimidating; want control of environment; problems with temper and having a "shell".
    9 - complacent, spacey; simplify problems and upset; too willing to go along with others; problems with inertia and stubbornness.


    some of the other things that helped me - dunno if they'll help you elfboy, but maybe we'll get lucky - i nicked these lists from assorted places on the internet and have edited them, i claim no authority -

    Hornevian groups (social response):
    High responders (7, 3, 8) assert towards their nurturers, who reinforce their ego.
    Middle responders (6, 2, 1) comply with their nurturers, who reinforce their superego.
    Low responders (5, 4, 9) withdraw from their nurturers, who overwhelm their id.


    Harmonic groups (response to conflict):
    Competent types (5, 1, 3) try to control conflict.
    Reactive types (4, 6, 8) engage with conflict.
    Optimistic types (9, 2, 7) withdraw from conflict.


    just food for thought, all of it
    I understand, skylights... Its just that, well, those core motivations can manifest in a great variety of behaviors (especially phobic/counterphobic Sixes), so I thought going back to basics could be worthwhile.

    Those are awesome categorizations! I'd forgotten about the Hornevian triads.

  5. #305
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Let's take this from Viridian's International Enneagram post:

    "6 - Coping strategy: Typically, Sixes grew up with authorities they believed were untrustworthy or unpredictable and felt they had to be watchful to survive."

    The problem is defining oneself in terms of inessentials. Someone like Elfboy could agree with part of this statement but not all of it. So he could agree with "they had to be watchful to survive," but not the first part about not trusting authorities.

    I'm not saying this is the case here. Only that I've seen that this way of mistyping is a problem. The whole description has to apply, not bits and pieces here and there.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #306
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i don't know if maybe i'm odd one out but i don't think that i would personally be able to recognize my type on those lists. it's too subconscious for me. i identify consciously most with 3 on the first list and 7, 4, and 3 on the second. not that it's not great to have the info, viridian, and maybe it'll be very helpful for elfboy, it just occurs to me that i am not able to consciously see my own patterns in them, because the 6 impulse is rooted so deeply. if you asked me outright if i thought the world was a very dangerous place and i had no footing, i would probably laugh and say that sounds overdramatic. but that's definitely a baseline premise i operate on - i am constantly preoccupied with stability, in one way or another.

    aaand now that i've been unhelpful i guess i should try to be helpful

    i guess what i found most identifiable with personally was the "mid-level" traits - not the superficial outward images ("businessman" for 6, etc) or the deep, core cycles, but the average motivations and negative behaviors. for example, 6 being defensive, evasive, and anxious; cautious, indecisive, reactive, and defiant; problems with self-doubt and suspicion. i can see this manifest most clearly in close/intimate relationships - i figure cause i'm sx-first. i stole those adjectives from enneagraminstitution, i'll post the ones for the other types here as well. i'm sure if you're anything like me, elfboy, you've read the damn EI descriptions 100 times, but maybe it'd be helpful to just see these adjectives in isolation. worth a shot, at least.

    1 - controlled, careful, critical, perfectionistic; afraid of making a mistake; problems with resentment and impatience.
    2 - demonstrative, sentimental, flattering; need to be needed; problems with possessiveness and acknowledging own needs.
    3 - image-conscious, status-conscious; overly concerned with others' opinions; problems with workaholism and competitiveness.
    4 - dramatic, self-absorbed, temperamental; feel exempt from ordinary life; problems with melancholy and self-indulgence.
    5 - secretive, isolated, detached, high-strung; preoccupied with their thoughts; problems with eccentricity, nihilism and isolation.
    6 - anxious, suspicious, defensive, evasive; runs on stress while complaining about it; problems with self-doubt and suspicion.
    7 - spontaneous, acquisitive, scattered, undisciplined; become distracted and exhausted; problems with impatience and impulse.
    8 - confrontational, ego-centric, domineering, intimidating; want control of environment; problems with temper and having a "shell".
    9 - complacent, spacey; simplify problems and upset; too willing to go along with others; problems with inertia and stubbornness.


    some of the other things that helped me - dunno if they'll help you elfboy, but maybe we'll get lucky - i nicked these lists from assorted places on the internet and have edited them, i claim no authority -

    Hornevian groups (social response):
    High responders (7, 3, 8) assert towards their nurturers, who reinforce their ego.
    Middle responders (6, 2, 1) comply with their nurturers, who reinforce their superego.
    Low responders (5, 4, 9) withdraw from their nurturers, who overwhelm their id.


    Harmonic groups (response to conflict):
    Competent types (5, 1, 3) try to control conflict.
    Reactive types (4, 6, 8) engage with conflict.
    Optimistic types (9, 2, 7) withdraw from conflict.


    just food for thought, all of it
    ooh based off this, I relate to 3 and 8 equally. 2 ONLY to the people I choose and so far I've not gotten a chance to show it yet. Then 5.

    engage or control, hmm, that's a food for thought, what does it mean to control or engage?

    /checks definitions
    C#2-C#5-F#5
    3 octaves, 2 notes and 1 semitone
    Supported range: F#2-F#4-C#5

  7. #307
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I understand, skylights... Its just that, well, those core motivations can manifest in a great variety of behaviors (especially phobic/counterphobic Sixes), so I thought going back to basics could be worthwhile.

    Those are awesome categorizations! I'd forgotten about the Hornevian triads.
    I hadn't forgotten about them, or the Freudian id-ego-superego super-structures. But they are just so archetypal as to barely apply to reality if at all. That part of Riso's Personality Types is too rationalistic and simplistic.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #308
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i don't know if maybe i'm odd one out but i don't think that i would personally be able to recognize my type on those lists. it's too subconscious for me. i identify consciously most with 3 on the first list and 7, 4, and 3 on the second. not that it's not great to have the info, viridian, and maybe it'll be very helpful for elfboy, it just occurs to me that i am not able to consciously see my own patterns in them, because the 6 impulse is rooted so deeply. if you asked me outright if i thought the world was a very dangerous place and i had no footing, i would probably laugh and say that sounds overdramatic. but that's definitely a baseline premise i operate on - i am constantly preoccupied with stability, in one way or another.

    aaand now that i've been unhelpful i guess i should try to be helpful

    i guess what i found most identifiable with personally was the "mid-level" traits - not the superficial outward images ("businessman" for 6, etc) or the deep, core cycles, but the average motivations and negative behaviors. for example, 6 being defensive, evasive, and anxious; cautious, indecisive, reactive, and defiant; problems with self-doubt and suspicion. i can see this manifest most clearly in close/intimate relationships - i figure cause i'm sx-first. i stole those adjectives from enneagraminstitution, i'll post the ones for the other types here as well. i'm sure if you're anything like me, elfboy, you've read the damn EI descriptions 100 times, but maybe it'd be helpful to just see these adjectives in isolation. worth a shot, at least.

    1 - controlled, careful, critical, perfectionistic; afraid of making a mistake; problems with resentment and impatience.
    2 - demonstrative, sentimental, flattering; need to be needed; problems with possessiveness and acknowledging own needs.
    3 - image-conscious, status-conscious; overly concerned with others' opinions; problems with workaholism and competitiveness.
    4 - dramatic, self-absorbed, temperamental; feel exempt from ordinary life; problems with melancholy and self-indulgence.
    5 - secretive, isolated, detached, high-strung; preoccupied with their thoughts; problems with eccentricity, nihilism and isolation.
    6 - anxious, suspicious, defensive, evasive; runs on stress while complaining about it; problems with self-doubt and suspicion.
    7 - spontaneous, acquisitive, scattered, undisciplined; become distracted and exhausted; problems with impatience and impulse.
    8 - confrontational, ego-centric, domineering, intimidating; want control of environment; problems with temper and having a "shell".
    9 - complacent, spacey; simplify problems and upset; too willing to go along with others; problems with inertia and stubbornness.


    some of the other things that helped me - dunno if they'll help you elfboy, but maybe we'll get lucky - i nicked these lists from assorted places on the internet and have edited them, i claim no authority -

    Hornevian groups (social response):
    High responders (7, 3, 8) assert towards their nurturers, who reinforce their ego.
    Middle responders (6, 2, 1) comply with their nurturers, who reinforce their superego.
    Low responders (5, 4, 9) withdraw from their nurturers, who overwhelm their id.


    Harmonic groups (response to conflict):
    Competent types (5, 1, 3) try to control conflict.
    Reactive types (4, 6, 8) engage with conflict.
    Optimistic types (9, 2, 7) withdraw from conflict.


    just food for thought, all of it
    That's a good little group there. Helps me type myself better, (and question my types), and also helps type others. Though this looks like the unhealthy instead of the average. (Not questioning you, just pointing it out. "Average" sounds downright terrible.) This is how I (and other people around me) seem to act at their worst. Though, I guess the "unhealthy" often boils down to some pathology.
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  9. #309
    Member Alternatum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I hadn't forgotten about them, or the Freudian id-ego-superego super-structures. But they are just so archetypal as to barely apply to reality if at all. That part of Riso's Personality Types is too rationalistic and simplistic.
    I agree, though I hadn't seen the Horvenian groups described in that particular way before. Basically, one of the reasons I originally typed as a four was because of the quickie type sorter at the start of "wisdom of the enneagram". I concluded I must be a 'withdrawn' type, as that bit was dead-on while the 'compliant' types sounded too self-sacrificing to be me. The thing is not only is six capable of looking like any other type, including to oneself (a bit like nines) but also a six without a half-decent sense of inner guidance can just totally go astray in all sorts of ways, which for me means often looking like a nine or a four.

    I can't really explain very well to others why I think I'm a six, other than with how I see the universe as being full of nasty tricks up it's sleeve that it'll pull out when I'm not sufficiently wary - though often 'wariness' just means 'pessimistic'. I have a strong-ish gut feeling about being a six, which is just as well because if the descriptions are hit and miss, the instinctual variants and levels of development written for the type don't mean shit to me.

  10. #310
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I agree, though I hadn't seen the Horvenian groups described in that particular way before. Basically, one of the reasons I originally typed as a four was because of the quickie type sorter at the start of "wisdom of the enneagram". I concluded I must be a 'withdrawn' type, as that bit was dead-on while the 'compliant' types sounded too self-sacrificing to be me. The thing is not only is six capable of looking like any other type, including to oneself (a bit like nines)
    Elfboy, are you listening?


    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    but also a six without a half-decent sense of inner guidance can just totally go astray in all sorts of ways, which for me means often looking like a nine or a four.
    "Inner guidance," as in conscience? If you're speaking for yourself, can you be more specific about this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I can't really explain very well to others why I think I'm a six, other than with how I see the universe as being full of nasty tricks up it's sleeve that it'll pull out when I'm not sufficiently wary - though often 'wariness' just means 'pessimistic'. I have a strong-ish gut feeling about being a six, which is just as well because if the descriptions are hit and miss, the instinctual variants and levels of development written for the type don't mean shit to me.
    Instinctual variants don't mean anything to me either. When I first came to this forum I was shocked that instinctuals were being considered to such a degree. And apparently someone came along one day and decided they could be "stacked" like dice or dominoes.

    Sixes don't stay in one Level for very long but vary up and down the continuum moment by moment.

    Edit - in ANSIR terms what you describe about yourself sounds like the Sentinel type.
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    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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