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View Poll Results: Elfboy revisted

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  • 8w9

    6 33.33%
  • 9w8

    1 5.56%
  • 2w3

    1 5.56%
  • 2w1

    1 5.56%
  • 4w3

    4 22.22%
  • 3w2

    1 5.56%
  • 3w4

    4 22.22%
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  1. #131
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I didn't give you that much credit, however from what I've read you are a person of higher integration achievement, and therefore someone to be emulated.

    As I said, my Enneagram reading indicates that those in the 3-6-9 triangle progress much more quickly. As for myself, as a 5 I'm afraid progress is much, much slower. Those of us in the other 6 points are burdened with having to enjoy the struggle toward an end that the other 3 much more quickly achieve.
    what I'm about to say can be a case made for 8 or enlightened 6, but I wouldn't say getting to where I am today was easy. as mentioned previously, I have been done to depths of level 9 contemplating suicide and nursed myself psychologically back to health several hours a day for years with no outside materials or support from others. my progress that I've made thus far (whether it's level 1 level 3 or whichever currently) is from a solid resolve never to crumble and die. while I still think the description of a fully integrated 6 gives me too much credit, this on the other hand is something that was not easy and I believe I do deserve credit for.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  2. #132
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    I may change my mind later, but for not I'm sticking with 8w9. however, this conversation has led me to believe that I'm healthier than I thought perhaps at level 2 or 3 as opposed to 4 or 5
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  3. #133
    brainheart
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    typing yourself on your level of integration seems a little loopy to me personally. No offense but my guess is you are at a more average level vs healthy. If you don't relate to six motivations, you probably are not a six.

  4. #134
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Once again: enneagram is not about your motivations.

    As for Elfboy, he strikes me as a sort of INFP, 5w4 maybe.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I may change my mind later, but for not I'm sticking with 8w9. however, this conversation has led me to believe that I'm healthier than I thought perhaps at level 2 or 3 as opposed to 4 or 5
    If you still have any other questions or concerns due, then please feel free to PM me

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    In contrast to what SavageIdealist was advising above, core motivations are not that easy to discern. We learn our types from the descriptions, and then discover our motivations from reading, we don't determine our core motivations some other way and then determine our type from something in a book that matches it.
    No, core motivations are really easy to discern, it's simply about what you want in life, based of off what you fear, nothing more and nothing less. Reading descriptions only muddles the process because of the method in which descriptions are written; most descriptions are written without anything in the way of tested or external information. Most people who write the descriptions base them off simple axioms and rational deduce what the type is suppose to be, not what it is. Because of this type descriptions read more like stereotyping horoscopes; this is why INFP descriptions make them look like fluffy bunnies, it makes INTP's look like socially inept nerds, etc. If typings of every sort are to ever be taken seriously in the real world, then they need to be tested much like a science before actual descriptions are written. For example, several groups of people are split up based upon a certain personality trait (fear/motivation, function usage), then observation is done in order to draw any general conclusions concerning similarities within their behavior. Once that information is carefully collected, only then can general descriptions be written. That's what needs to be done to the enneagram (and other types categories), otherwise relying on the descriptions alon is nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Once again: enneagram is not about your motivations.

    As for Elfboy, he strikes me as a sort of INFP, 5w4 maybe.
    Then what is the enneagram about?

    Also, what makes you think that Elfboy, a guy who fearlessly argues against all his classmates, demonstrates excellent Te usage, and doesn't tak shit from others, is somehow one of the most introverted types (INFP 5w4) in existence?

  6. #136
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Once again: enneagram is not about your motivations.

    As for Elfboy, he strikes me as a sort of INFP, 5w4 maybe.
    I don't necessarily agree but that would actually make a lot of sense. my childhood was almost archtypical of an INFP and 5 integrates to 8.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  7. #137
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    No, core motivations are really easy to discern, it's simply about what you want in life, based of off what you fear, nothing more and nothing less.
    Core motivations are desires. They are more or less based off fears depending upon one's level of development. Fear drives us to pursue these desires in more destructive ways, but fear is not necessarily present. When fear (anxiety, really) is entirely absent, then we are spiritually and psychologically free to move on to our type's point of integration in the pursuit of desires.

    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    Reading descriptions only muddles the process because of the method in which descriptions are written; most descriptions are written without anything in the way of tested or external information. Most people who write the descriptions base them off simple axioms and rational deduce what the type is suppose to be, not what it is.
    However, since you're partly addressing me, I have been quoting Riso who reportedly spent much time riding buses and taking copious notes of the people seated around him. This statement also applies to much of what you wrote just below this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    Because of this type descriptions read more like stereotyping horoscopes; this is why INFP descriptions make them look like fluffy bunnies, it makes INTP's look like socially inept nerds, etc. If typings of every sort are to ever be taken seriously in the real world, then they need to be tested much like a science before actual descriptions are written. For example, several groups of people are split up based upon a certain personality trait (fear/motivation, function usage), then observation is done in order to draw any general conclusions concerning similarities within their behavior. Once that information is carefully collected, only then can general descriptions be written. That's what needs to be done to the enneagram (and other types categories), otherwise relying on the descriptions alon is nonsense.
    I certainly agree with the idea of core or key motivations of types, although it seems too rigid and archetypal to be applied in reality. All other motives reduce to a single one. I'm just saying that one cannot know their own key motivation without reading an Enneagram book and believing what is written there. A typical criticism of this idea would ask why only one key motivation and not two or a dozen. Why all the psychological reductionism, hasn't psychology grown beyond Freud?

    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    Then what is the enneagram about?

    Also, what makes you think that Elfboy, a guy who fearlessly argues against all his classmates, demonstrates excellent Te usage, and doesn't tak shit from others, is somehow one of the most introverted types (INFP 5w4) in existence?
    Elfboy described that as one phase out of many. If you look back at his informative bio, there were various periods which he represented by some key behaviors. He vaguely mentioned some motivations but none of them match up with key motivations. Anger was one such motivation. Being a hero to others was another motivation.

    There were five distinctly spelled-out phases to his childhood into adulthood. 1. The defender/protector/hero phase; 2. being picked on by bullies and retreating into a shell/confusion/caution phase; 3. an anger phase (although he was not aware of being angry), learning to defend himself primarily verbally, as you pointed out; 4. another quiet phase, not so much socially withdrawn this time but more of a self-confident charmer; 5. college, and drawing on his 3-ish ability to appear as one ennea-type while being another.

    If I were forced to abandon the idea that he is a 6w5 I would have to go with 3, but with the wing type unknown. 6w5 still fits him better than any other type, to my mind. But not the 8 who willfully seeks out conflict, whereas he seemingly only attracted it at phase 3 as a kind of magnet for trouble.

    I often use the "unknown-wing" to eliminate the wing's core type as a possibility.

    That being said, I haven't denied that much of what Elfboy writes on himself comes across like the 8, although, among other things, he was rather too quiet and sensitive a child for that. Self-describing as a charming adult comes across as a higher-level 6, far far more than 8 or 3. Three's become charming as a manipulative ploy. Sixes simply want to make a good impression for various, more healthy reasons, mostly I think simply because they ENJOY being around other people.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #138
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Based on my last comment, I should modify something I said last night. Where Elfboy thinks of himself as "charming," in an integration to 2, I claimed that it had more to do with disintegrating to 3. Indeed, "charming" could better describe the 6 at level 2, especially where he states that his level of integration is healthier than he had thought before starting this thread.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #139
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    typing yourself on your level of integration seems a little loopy to me personally. No offense but my guess is you are at a more average level vs healthy. If you don't relate to six motivations, you probably are not a six.
    Agreed on the first point. It is too easy to confuse one's self-typing based on a dynamic move from one point to another. Those somewhere in the 3-6-9 triangle are charming depending on where they are on the levels.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #140
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Based on my last comment, I should modify something I said last night. Where Elfboy thinks of himself as "charming," in an integration to 2, I claimed that it had more to do with disintegrating to 3. Indeed, "charming" could better describe the 6 at level 2, especially where he states that his level of integration is healthier than he had thought before starting this thread.
    my charming side is definitely not my disintegrated side. I enjoy beling polite, friendly and charming sometimes, but it's not reputation or appearence motivated.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

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