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View Poll Results: Elfboy revisted

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  • 8w9

    6 33.33%
  • 9w8

    1 5.56%
  • 2w3

    1 5.56%
  • 2w1

    1 5.56%
  • 4w3

    4 22.22%
  • 3w2

    1 5.56%
  • 3w4

    4 22.22%
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  1. #101
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    However, that was a quote from Riso's description of 3 at level 6, whereas the type 8 contains no such description, because there is no such need. Moreover, the high-average 8 is not described as rational and goal-oriented, but competitive and determined to win. Threes are also goal-oriented. So it will be difficult for you to maintain the view of yourself as an 8 against the idea of 6 stressing to a type similar in some ways to the 8.
    I am determined to win but I'm also rational and goal oriented in the sense that when I am confronting someone, my main motivation is to come to the right conclusion out of the confrontation. this trait is present in the description of 8 in the comparison I posted above (it's from enneagraminstitute.com btw)
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  2. #102
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    my exterior isn't macho lol it's actually quite feminine, just in a very strong, choleric sort of way. I didn't phrase that dramatic thing correctly. I frequently feel subtle amounts of anger, but when I'm confronting someone, the prevailing feeling is pure gut energy, very little emotion attached. I'm usually 90-100% calm on the inside when confronting someone, even though I am very externally intense. I am not what I appear to others because people percieve me as argumentative and aggressive. many people feel this way about 8s. few people feel this way about 6s unless they actually are aggressive or hostile.
    bold: it has nothing to do with security. everything to do with freedom and demanding that people stay out of my way freedom and autonomy are 100X more important than security
    That seems awfully 8. I've personally met several 6s and they tend to be A: really unsure or B: HUGE WHINERS or C: huge worryworts or D: all of them.

    Perhaps you can clarify that point for us?
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  3. #103
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwace View Post
    Just a comment here, it seems as though Elfboy is denying (well it seemed to me, I don't know about you) the fact that his type is 6. It seems that this defense mechanism is rather 8-ish because they use the mechanism of denial to cope with "stress". His type may not be six at all but I don't think that really supports the fact that he's an 8.

    Just an observation that I made. I don't really see him projecting in this thread, or that denial might as well be a projection.
    Lol. This conversation has been a formidable challenge. Not so challenging, however, with Riso's book at my right hand.

    There is a list of each type's defense mechanisms somewhere. But I just recognized something I should have seen long ago in this conversation: Elfboy's ENFP implies Fi, which corresponds archetypically to the type 6.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #104
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Eh, I wouldn't trust the function correspondence to enneagram.

    8 and extraverted intuition doesn't really reinforce that aggression that is found in 8s. Being an ENTJ myself and not using Ne on a conscious basis I fail to see how this correspondence is accurate.
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  5. #105
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwace View Post
    That seems awfully 8. I've personally met several 6s and they tend to be A: really unsure or B: HUGE WHINERS or C: huge worryworts or D: all of them.

    Perhaps you can clarify that point for us?
    I can. It's called "levels of integration." Elfboy's biography tells a story of 6 disintegration from level 1 to level 6, and then integrating back to level 1 again (with a side-trip through level 9 during his senior year). That's what amazes me about his description. Of course if he's now a relatively secure 6 (perhaps nobody is secure 100% of the time) at level 1, then those average traits you mentioned won't apply.

    Notice that his first counter-point against me was to point out that he's not like the type I was describing. But I was describing a deteriorated aspect of his childhood, not the present-day individual.

    And type 8s don't go through this many dramatic personality changes in such a brief span of time. Believe me. Type 8s are much solider internally than that. Elfboy may state at this point that he is that solid now - and perhaps he is. But that statement ignores the entire point of creating a bio of his childhood.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #106
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwace View Post
    Eh, I wouldn't trust the function correspondence to enneagram.

    8 and extraverted intuition doesn't really reinforce that aggression that is found in 8s. Being an ENTJ myself and not using Ne on a conscious basis I fail to see how this correspondence is accurate.
    It is an archetypal (not 'archetypical' as I stated above) correspondence. That basically means I had to reduce the Enneagram to a static system in order to force it to correspond to another static system. But then Riso did the same thing.

    One must also recognize that Jung was describing fairly average if not neurotic people who were probably his patients. He said nothing about the Ne integrating to another function, but only addressed repressed functions.

    So many difficulties here arise from not recognizing 1. the dynamic nature of the Enneagram, and 2. the levels of integration. Addressing this point is probably one of my motives for staying with this conversation as long as I have.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #107
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I can. It's called "levels of integration." Elfboy's biography tells a story of 6 disintegration from level 1 to level 6, and then integrating back to level 1 again (with a side-trip through level 9 during his senior year). That's what amazes me about his description. Of course if he's now a relatively secure 6 (perhaps nobody is secure 100% of the time) at level 1, then those average traits you mentioned won't apply.

    Notice that his first counter-point against me was to point out that he's not like the type I was describing. But I was describing a deteriorated aspect of his childhood, not the present-day individual.

    And type 8s don't go through this many dramatic personality changes in such a brief span of time. Believe me. Type 8s are much solider internally than that. Elfboy may state at this point that he is that solid now - and perhaps he is. But that statement ignores the entire point of creating a bio of his childhood.
    in that case there needs to be introspecting on my part to really know if I'm a 6 or not :P
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  8. #108
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I can. It's called "levels of integration." Elfboy's biography tells a story of 6 disintegration from level 1 to level 6, and then integrating back to level 1 again (with a side-trip through level 9 during his senior year). That's what amazes me about his description. Of course if he's now a relatively secure 6 (perhaps nobody is secure 100% of the time) at level 1, then those average traits you mentioned won't apply.

    Notice that his first counter-point against me was to point out that he's not like the type I was describing. But I was describing a deteriorated aspect of his childhood, not the present-day individual.

    And type 8s don't go through this many dramatic personality changes in such a brief span of time. Believe me. Type 8s are much solider internally than that. Elfboy may state at this point that he is that solid now - and perhaps he is. But that statement ignores the entire point of creating a bio of his childhood.
    I think that's only a correlation. I'm sure there are plenty of 8s who went through dramatic personality changes.
    PS: I think I was a level 4/level 5 8 in high school. my focus was all about learning how to get money and it still is (currently I fluctuate between levels 4 and 2).
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
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  9. #109
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    I think you have the misconception that I'm a 6 because I was insecure from that period between 5th and 7th grade, but that was because I had plunged clear into the depths of the enneagram staying around levels 8 and 9.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  10. #110
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I am determined to win but I'm also rational and goal oriented in the sense that when I am confronting someone, my main motivation is to come to the right conclusion out of the confrontation. this trait is present in the description of 8 in the comparison I posted above (it's from enneagraminstitute.com btw)
    I found a description of the type 8 at that site, but I see nothing about the 8s wanting to come to the right conclusion - as if they are intellectuals doing a study on some topic.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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