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View Poll Results: Elfboy revisted

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  • 8w9

    6 33.33%
  • 9w8

    1 5.56%
  • 2w3

    1 5.56%
  • 2w1

    1 5.56%
  • 4w3

    4 22.22%
  • 3w2

    1 5.56%
  • 3w4

    4 22.22%
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  1. #91
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    actually, sometimes I get more charming under stress. lol sorta like Hans Landa from Inglourious Basterds or the stereotypical polite villain who laughs at your attempts to thwart him. other times I do turn dull, less charming and much more negative.
    The Six at Level 5 becomes more charming when stressing to Three: "Like average Threes, Sixes do not want to alienate others, or to let others know they are unsure of themselves or the situation. Thus, they TURN ON THE CHARM."

    Personality Types, Don Richard Riso.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #92
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I don't know where you're getting this idea about the 6's energy point. And saying you weren't very neurotic means you were somewhat neurotic at least. Fighting back against a teacher's lack of respect toward you is the Six rebelling at level 6. But you took on the challenges, both internal and external, and came out better for it. After this point in your life your bio even describes the integration to 9, "by senior year I sorta mellowed out though and became calmer and more affectionate." "Calmer" has a Nine "ring" to it; "affectionate" corresponds to this description from Riso: "the integrating Six...becomes independent and yet, paradoxically, is closer to others than ever before."

    As for your 5-wing, they "are more independent than Sixes with a Seven-wing, and are less likely to go to others for reassurance, advice, or to solve their problems. They may have one or two mentors or confidants [you're sure to rebel against this notion here!], BUT IN MOST CASES they will 'gut out' their problems and anxieties alone." Gut out.

    Since you were a disintegrated Six at least for part of your childhood, here is the description of the Six at the Three's level 6: "Sixes become defiant and aggressive in their attitudes and behavior. They put everyone on notice that they cannot be trifled with, but tend to go too far and bully others."

    Your bio was an amazingly accurate story of a type 6 childhood!
    once again I think it is a matter of energy. 6w7s are the rebellious teenagers of the enneagram. they enjoy the act of rebelling and the invigorating feeling of internal security if gives them. 8 rebelliousness (particularly 8w9) is more about the ends "I will be respected and given my personal space and freedom. we can do this the easy way or the hard way" when I had problems with authority as a kid, it was more my parents screaming and making a scene and me sitting a chair like "what are you doing? if you want me to respect you than control yourself and stop letting your emotions run you! good grief, I can't believe a 14 year old has to say this to you when you're 54"
    6 rebelliousness: I'm rebelling against authority! you don't understand me and you just want me to be like you!
    8 rebelliousness: there's no such thing as authority. it's just a man made concept. all I know is someone is trying to control me and that is not to be tolerated
    another key difference is, 6s may make it clear that they are not to be trifled with (take King Leonidas in 300 for example) but they are very deliberate with it, get more emotional and have to expend a lot of energy. 8s naturally give off the "don't fuck with me" vibe and have to consciously avoid conflict
    PS: I'm very pleased to say I've never been a bully in my life
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  3. #93
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    once again I think it is a matter of energy. 6w7s are the rebellious teenagers of the enneagram. they enjoy the act of rebelling and the invigorating feeling of internal security if gives them. 8 rebelliousness (particularly 8w9) is more about the ends "I will be respected and given my personal space and freedom. we can do this the easy way or the hard way" when I had problems with authority as a kid, it was more my parents screaming and making a scene and me sitting a chair like "what are you doing? if you want me to respect you than control yourself and stop letting your emotions run you! good grief, I can't believe a 14 year old has to say this to you when you're 54"
    6 rebelliousness: I'm rebelling against authority! you don't understand me and you just want me to be like you!
    8 rebelliousness: there's no such thing as authority. it's just a man made concept. all I know is someone is trying to control me and that is not to be tolerated
    another key difference is, 6s may make it clear that they are not to be trifled with (take King Leonidas in 300 for example) but they are very deliberate with it, get more emotional and have to expend a lot of energy. 8s naturally give off the "don't fuck with me" vibe and have to consciously avoid conflict
    PS: I'm very pleased to say I've never been a bully in my life
    I just think this line from a previous comment of yours tells the story best:
    " all the male 8s I know come off as these gruff, tough bad boys who are constantly rebelling against something or trying to dominate something. I'm quite rebellious and have a significant contempt for authority, but I don't view myself as gruff and tough at all. even at my most unhealthy, I've been very 5-ish, but never very tough guy or macho (ugh, I HATE people like this...)"

    That is the 6w5 in a nut-shell.

    And whether or not you've been a bully (3 at level 6), it sounds like at one point you "put everyone on notice that you cannot be trifled with," which is also 3 at level 6. This may have been expressed verbally or just through your general social attitude.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #94
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    this should illustrate my point better. I relate to only very small bits of the 6 temperament in this comparison (the contradictory and not wanting to be pushed around come to mind, but little else if any)
    bold: strongly agree
    underlined: sort of agree
    strike: definitely disagree

    Sixes and Eights are aggressive, although only the Eight is an entirely aggressive personality. Sixes react both to their fears and to other people and constantly oscillate from one state to another, from Level to Level. They are ambivalent and passive-aggressive, evasive and contradictory. In contrast, Eights have solid egos and formidable wills; they keep pushing others until they get them what they want. There is little softness in Eights and even less tendency to comply with the wishes of anyone else. They have no desire to be liked or to ingratiate themselves with others. Rather than look to others for protection, Eights offer protection (patronage) in return for hard work and loyalty.

    As different as these two types are, they are nevertheless similar at Level 6–but only at this Level. At this stage both Sixes (The Authoritarian Rebel) and in Eights (The Confrontational Adversary) show similar aggressive traits–belligerence, defiance, a willingness to intimidate others, a quick and threatening temper, the threat of violence, hatred of others, and so forth. However, Eights arrive at this stage as a result of constantly escalating their pressure on others to get what they want until they have become highly confrontational and combative. Sixes arrive at their state from a very different route–in reaction to their vacillation and dependency. Sixes become aggressive because they do not want to be pushed around anymore; Eights become aggressive to push others even more.

    The essential difference is that Sixes eventually will yield and their defenses will crumble if enough pressure is applied to them, whereas opposition to Eights only encourages them to remain defiant and to meet their adversary with renewed aggression.

    Both types at this Level can be dangerous; ironically, Sixes are probably more dangerous at this stage than Eights since they are anxious and may strike out at someone impulsively or irrationally. On the other hand, average Eights are more rational: they take the odds of success into account at every move. If and when they finally do become violent, however, Eights are more dangerous than Sixes because they are more ruthless, and the momentum of their inflated egos makes them feel that they can and must press onward until their enemies are utterly destroyed. Eights eventually become megalomaniacs (and may be destroyed after they have destroyed others). By contrast, unhealthy Sixes eventually become self-defeating (and may be destroyed by their own fear). Compare G. Gordon Liddy and Mike Tyson (Sixes) with Henry Kissinger and Muhammad Ali (Eights) to understand more about the similarities and differences between these types.
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  5. #95
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Some of your bio comes across as an externally-tough exterior protecting a softer interior. That also describes the 6 in a nutshell. You're not a "tough guy or macho," but much of what you write about yourself states that you are not as you appear to others. They see you as angry, but no, you're just dramatic. That is a dual impression which is strikingly 6-like. I am 100% convinced that you are 6w5.

    What role does Objectivism play in your intellectual/emotional life? Security again?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #96
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I just think this line from a previous comment of yours tells the story best:
    " all the male 8s I know come off as these gruff, tough bad boys who are constantly rebelling against something or trying to dominate something. I'm quite rebellious and have a significant contempt for authority, but I don't view myself as gruff and tough at all. even at my most unhealthy, I've been very 5-ish, but never very tough guy or macho (ugh, I HATE people like this...)"

    That is the 6w5 in a nut-shell.

    And whether or not you've been a bully (3 at level 6), it sounds like at one point you "put everyone on notice that you cannot be trifled with," which is also 3 at level 6. This may have been expressed verbally or just through your general social attitude.
    of course I would do this, just about all 8s do. it comes quite naturally actually. if you want an example of combativeness, you need only look on just about every thread I've ever posted. my confrontation style is very rational, goal oriented and specfic like a higher-end-of-average 8. combative 6s get personal and emotional, I go INTJ/ENTJ rational logic.
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  7. #97
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    this should illustrate my point better. I relate to only very small bits of the 6 temperament in this comparison (the contradictory and not wanting to be pushed around come to mind, but little else if any)
    bold: strongly agree
    underlined: sort of agree
    strike: definitely disagree
    I would like to point out this section which you strongly agree with: "Sixes become aggressive because they do not want to be pushed around anymore; Eights become aggressive to push others even more."

    But dude... If you don't mind my calling you that... you are contradicting your own biography in which you described yourself as being bullied and pushed around before the 8th grade. By the time the 8th grade rolled around, you asserted your aggressive tendencies. Make that, your Six's aggressive tendencies.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #98
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Just a comment here, it seems as though Elfboy is denying (well it seemed to me, I don't know about you) the fact that his type is 6. It seems that this defense mechanism is rather 8-ish because they use the mechanism of denial to cope with "stress". His type may not be six at all but I don't think that really supports the fact that he's an 8.

    Just an observation that I made. I don't really see him projecting in this thread, or that denial might as well be a projection.
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  9. #99
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    of course I would do this, just about all 8s do. it comes quite naturally actually. if you want an example of combativeness, you need only look on just about every thread I've ever posted. my confrontation style is very rational, goal oriented and specfic like a higher-end-of-average 8. combative 6s get personal and emotional, I go INTJ/ENTJ rational logic.
    However, that was a quote from Riso's description of 3 at level 6, whereas the type 8 contains no such description, because there is no such need. Moreover, the high-average 8 is not described as rational and goal-oriented, but competitive and determined to win. Threes are also goal-oriented. So it will be difficult for you to maintain the view of yourself as an 8 against the idea of 6 stressing to a type similar in some ways to the 8.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #100
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Some of your bio comes across as an externally-tough exterior protecting a softer interior. That also describes the 6 in a nutshell. You're not a "tough guy or macho," but much of what you write about yourself states that you are not as you appear to others. They see you as angry, but no, you're just dramatic. That is a dual impression which is strikingly 6-like. I am 100% convinced that you are 6w5.

    What role does Objectivism play in your intellectual/emotional life? Security again?
    my exterior isn't macho lol it's actually quite feminine, just in a very strong, choleric sort of way. I didn't phrase that dramatic thing correctly. I frequently feel subtle amounts of anger, but when I'm confronting someone, the prevailing feeling is pure gut energy, very little emotion attached. I'm usually 90-100% calm on the inside when confronting someone, even though I am very externally intense. I am not what I appear to others because people percieve me as argumentative and aggressive. many people feel this way about 8s. few people feel this way about 6s unless they actually are aggressive or hostile.
    bold: it has nothing to do with security. everything to do with freedom and demanding that people stay out of my way freedom and autonomy are 100X more important than security
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    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

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