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  1. #41
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    hey marm want to make our own type? we can be 10s

    aesthetic image-conscious occasionally ballsy introspectives.

    oh and speed, i forgot to mention, the astrology info i had came from here: http://alabe.com/freechart/
    it's nice, you plug in your info and it spits out a natal chart and corresponding interpretations.
    Rising Sign is in 26 Degrees Aquarius
    You like new ideas and concepts, but you prefer to discover them by yourself -- it is not easy for others to convert you to anything. You form your own opinions, but once you do form them, you then want to convince everyone else that they are correct. Try to be more tolerant of the opinions of others. You have a deep and abiding interest in science, mathematics, and the great social problems of the day. Very sympathetic toward the downtrodden, equality is your battle cry! You demand that those in authority be fair to all. You are an intellectual -- emotions and emotional people are difficult for you to understand. You are known for being calm, cool, detached and objective.

    Sun is in 23 Degrees Taurus.
    You are known for being patient, slow moving and careful -- you love to prolong and savor enjoyable times. You appreciate and need comfort, ease and warm surroundings. Be careful of a tendency to become placid and self-satisfied and to overeat (especially sweets). You require strenuous situations in order to grow and mature properly, even though you try to avoid them. Affectionate, even-tempered and slow to anger -- when you do become emotionally upset, you are also slow to forgive and time must pass before your calm returns. You demand real results from any situation -- abstractions are very difficult for you to comprehend. Very artistic, your hands love to mold and shape things. You portray an earthy, physical sexiness that others find quite seductive.

    Moon is in 21 Degrees Capricorn.
    You are serious and shy and very uncomfortable in those situations where spontaneous and exuberant emotional reactions seem called for. An achiever, you prefer doing practical, worthwhile things that produce tangible results. You need role models to respect, love and emulate. You tend to feel that you're a failure unless you get an important and highly respected position in life. Don't be so hard on yourself! For you, practical needs always win out over emotional considerations. Remember that you too have the right to comfort, security and love. Dutiful and patient, when you make an emotional commitment, you sign on for the long haul -- your love is long- enduring.

    Mercury is in 08 Degrees Taurus.
    A slow and careful thinker, you like to present ideas visually and concretely. Abstractions are quite difficult for you to understand. For you, everything must be practical and useful in order to merit your attention. You are a perfectionist -- you enjoy being skillful enough to handle the dexterity required of fine craftsmanship. Cautious and conservative in your thinking, you are very slow to change your opinions. You are more apt to respond to an appeal to your feelings than to an appeal to logic or reason.

    Venus is in 12 Degrees Aries.
    You are a very affectionate person but you hate to be tied down. You are more than willing to be the aggressor in initiating new relationships. Indeed, once you have set your sights on someone, you tend to pursue him or her ardently and passionately. But you do demand your own way in a relationship. Try to give in to your partner's needs and desires once in a while.

    Mars is in 18 Degrees Pisces.
    Very sensitive and vulnerable, it is difficult for you to assert yourself. At times, you feel quite tired and you will require a lot of sleep in order to maintain your health and your strength. You are at your best when you act without your ego being important. You can be very unselfish and considerate of the needs of others. You get the most satisfaction by giving to others when you expect nothing in return. Beware of a tendency to want always to work behind the scenes or to become overly deceptive by doing things behind others' backs.

    Jupiter is in 09 Degrees Cancer.
    You must be emotionally secure in order to grow and develop. You are happiest when your family and community support and nourish you and boost your morale. Whether your childhood experiences of love and emotional dependability were positive or negative will set the tone for your emotional growth and stability as an adult. When you feel at ease with yourself, you are able to offer assistance to those who need a helping hand.

    Saturn is in 25 Degrees Capricorn.
    Very serious-minded and mature, you have the ability to take on responsibilities and to carry out important duties. You can also be trusted to be extremely practical and thrifty. A good organizer, you are the ideal one to be counted on to take a clearly defined project through to its logical conclusion. An achiever, you pride yourself on your ability to focus your attention totally on some worthy goal and then attain it.

    Uranus is in 09 Degrees Capricorn.
    You, and your peer group as well, seek out practical solutions to a changing society's attitudes to customs, traditions and authority structures. Your logical and orderly manner of dealing with these matters will result in permanent and carefully planned, but sweeping, reforms.

    N. Node is in 10 Degrees Aquarius.
    As long as someone else (or a group or organization) appeals to your intellectual sensibilities, you'll try to ally yourself with them in some way. You may find that you always seem to get involved with many wide-ranging groups -- so much so that you find it difficult to fit them all into your busy schedule. Your many friends and acquaintances provide you with needed stimulation. You're loyal and fair-minded -- you try to spend time equally with all your friends, never concentrating on just one or two for any length of time. Although probably quite conservative yourself, you're attracted to those who are a bit offbeat or eccentric -- you enjoy watching their minds work.

    Totally acurate. Thanks!
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  2. #42
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    I hav'nt figured out Brett Michael's type, but yes he could really be a Sexual 7w6. I know that Bono and Robert Plant are 7w6 Sx/So; Richard Branson as well.

    Now for 7w6 Sp/Sx, I know a girl who is of that type, she's ENFJ. What could I say to you about her? Because I'm not sure to know any famous example of that type, but for the adjascent type, I have.

    7w6 Sp/So
    Steven Spielberg:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBH89Y0Xj7c
    Elton John:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ4_NSc4Oh0

    7w8 Sp/Sx
    Linda Lee Bukowski:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHAW6cBVjro
    Bruce Willis:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ej8k-kL1Wk

    6w7 Sp/Sx
    Calista Flockart:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcJM_Fe42Xg
    Dido:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEvsMb9yZAY
    Willow:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lBPH5BJnek*

    7w6 Sx/Sp
    Salvador Dali:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXT2E9Ccc8A
    Zsa Zsa Gabor:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmZLHCKphi4
    Ava Gardner:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2hy6fyheIA
    Nina Hagen:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4QXi3APfoI

    Also, I suspect Meher Baba was a 7w6 Sp/Sx or Sx/Sp, but I'm not sure:

    [youtube=rt4xVI2odKw]Meher Baba (?)7w6 Sp/Sx-Sx/Sp(?)[/youtube]
    Speed...thank you so much for this. I actually can't thank you enough really. I will watch all of these to try and get a better understanding of what e-type I actually am. I so appreciate it.

    And skylights...thank you for letting me sneak in on your thread...you are so sweet. And yes, I did know you wouldn't mind lol. Regardless of e-type...you have the ENFP 'the more the better/I learn from you - you learn from me/community' thing too! I love it.

    EDIT lol Brett Michaels

  3. #43
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    this is why i think 3 for skylights. (from a very very old thread lol)

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    hey guys. tl;dr in bold

    ok first of all thanks to petra pan for knowing i was a 3 all along (at least in my trifix ha ha) and nudging me patiently until i finally agreed

    but what i want to talk about is decision-making, and possibly in particular for Fi dom/aux 3s, because i often find my Fi-ish desires at odds with my 3-ish desires. and being that i'm a rather indecisive P already, it just makes everything a bit more tricky! and even if i'm not a 3, this problem is 3 enough that i still would really like to approach it in that way.

    what i mean is that i often find my personal desire to have meaning/goodness (Fi) up against the desire to have what is the biggest, the best, the most admirable, and what others would affirm (3).

    take my car, for example. it's a fairly low-price reliable small but nice sedan. i usually love it, because it's fun to drive (lightweight and stick shift!), well-suited to my needs, a color that i like, and has been with me through a lot! but occasionally i feel a bit embarrassed that it's not a nicer, fancier, more expensive car. especially when i'm hanging around snobby people. like my family.

    and when it comes to making decisions, i often find these two sorts of desires pitted against one another: do i go for meaning, or what is The Best? because honestly, when i go for meaning, Fi knows it's "right", but i feel regret that i didn't get The Best. i feel like i'm letting myself down and i'm letting others down, because i could have done better. but when i go for The Best, Fi is pissy. i'm looking at a piece of jewelry - Fi says i really like it smaller; 3 says it's more impressive if it's bigger. your friends will like it more. your bff jill will like it more and i really trust her judgment (though i think she is a 3 too.) your parents will like it more. and it's the exact same thing just bigger anyway, there's no reason not to like it. people will take you more seriously and know you're wealthy and impressive. and it sounds kind of stupid to write it, but i do want people to think/know this.

    and yeah, i know we're told from day 1 to go with our hearts because money will never make us happy. but my parents both have public service jobs (and technically we are upper class, but still) - they keep telling me that from their experience they genuinely believe it's better to just be a good person in a non-public job (or like a govt job) than to limit myself to a lower salary job even though it's idealistic, and have to struggle with financial issues. and note that they're both idealists (not the NF kind) - both work purely for human betterment. and they're are plagued by financial headaches.

    so anyway. Fi vs 3. how the hell does one go about reconciling this?

  4. #44
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    and especially this, from the same thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post




    yeah. i think that on a lot of levels i realize that those are unhealthy 3 thoughts, but sometimes it hits me that if i didn't think like that, i wouldn't be nearly as successful as i've been. which sounds a bit like self-deception, but i think it's a valid point. it's funny, to look at my resume, it looks good - because i don't really feel like i've done that well! though i do like to reflect on certain stuff - awards, high-ranking positions, etc - that i've had. haha.
    .
    .
    .



    a defense system. yeah, i really like that. and right, because on a moment-to-moment basis, i am way more ENFP than 3. and it really is a bizarre combination because Ne says fuck everything, let's have fun; Fi says seek what is true to yourself and meaningful; but then 3 is what makes me do crazy stuff like want to go to top-tier schools even though they aren't a good fit, seek leadership positions, desire money, desire status. .

  5. #45
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    it's true. and there are funny places, where Fi and image consciousness overlap. like makeup, and clothing. i express myself, and also present myself. i do not choose clothing or makeup that i do not relate to on a "heart" level. i usually dress myself based on how i "feel" in the morning, though i am always conscious of how my style is received, how people react.

    6 does seem very possible to me because i do struggle with anxiety. the "image" that i do put on is to quell fears of being rejected. i don't feel like i stray from my true self, though. i read once that 3s can get their awards and then feel hollow. that doesn't happen to me. i get awards and feel proud, safe. i do have a preoccupation with safety - not in the physical sense but in the social/intimate sense. and i don't know if that's 3/4 overlap, or that i'm a 6, and it's fear that causes me to behave as i do. i am very concerned with belonging. i tend to ascribe more power to authority than it actually has over me. i also recently read about the 6 "panel of people to consult" in their head... i do that, lol! not necessarily talk to them, but run how i will be accepted by others. i'm sure you can see in play on the forums, how i feel the need to immediately reconcile things if i create controversy or negativity. not for the sake of harmony, but for the sake of myself.

    (welcome to "how skylights is self-absorbed, skylights tells all" )

    this 6w7 description is extraordinarily on target:

    Sixes with a 7 wing are generally outgoing and may appear more overtly nervous. More plainly want to be liked and will pursue others in contrast to 5 wing who pulls in. Can be charming, sociable, ingratiating. Have a faster tempo, stronger connection to 3. Often self-preservation subtypes, characterized by a [i]personal warmth[i]. Can have a cheerful, forward-looking drive and be disarmingly funny. Self-effacing, gracious and curious. When more entranced, may be self-contradicting and seem as if they want two things at once. Sometimes test others overtly, drive you crazy with mixed messages. It may be hard to follow what they're saying. When threatened, one defense is to become impossible to please. When counterphobic, they tend to be accusative. Some get caught up in big plans that they hope will result in material security. Also can be insecure, irritable, petty, irrational, chaotic. Subject to mood swings, inferiority complexes, runaway fears. May have hair-trigger flare-ups of paranoia. Falsely accuse others and then seem not to realize it. Other times they plead to be taken care of. Sometimes defensively conservative in their lifestyle. Some struggle with appetite.
    i mean, that really, really, is like me. it fits much more than any 3 description i have ever read. i mean, i wish i were more organized, i wish i were more polished, i wish i were less overtly nervous (i can hide it well enough by just shutting up, but sometimes my voice betrays me - or the fact that i tell people, lol). i wish i were more go-go-go (i can be, and i'm very productive when i am, but i am not by default. i need stronger-than-usual motivation to get me going.) i do appreciate a slower-paced workplace, as long as i am free to innovate.

    honestly though i have no idea how i've ended up being torn between two stereotypically "hard worker" types. i mean yeah i work hard sometimes. and as fast as i can, because i want to get it done and not have to deal with it lol.

  6. #46
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    that's true. and then there are the places where Fi and image consciousness overlap. like makeup, and clothing. i express myself, and also present myself. i do not choose clothing or makeup that i do not relate to on a "heart" level. i usually dress myself based on how i feel in the morning, though i am always conscious of the style i am presenting. even when i am in pajamas or gym clothes, i put thought to it. it is in part for others and in part for myself.

    6 does seem very familiar to me because i do struggle with anxiety. i am quite anxious by nature. i am usually trusting, but i don't take things at face value. i like to fact-check if something seems a bit off. i tend to run through danger scenes in my head... last time i was at the dentist, in the waiting room, i had to use the bathroom, and as i got back to my seat, i thought about, what if someone had seen the mascara i was taking out and thought it was some kind of weapon... and they had attacked... and i had to lock myself in the bathroom and escape out the ceiling... lol...

    anyway. the part of the "image" that i do put on - as opposed to what is purely me - is to quell fear, the fear of being rejected. i mean, perhaps that's why i look internally like a 3, because my fear is the same as 3's fear, but i respond to the fear as opposed to the shame. maybe. or maybe i'm just an emotional, lazy 3, hahaha. i also wonder how much having a very close friend who is a 3, is affecting me. i definitely feel pressure from her to up my own standards. and i like that, but i think the fact that my standards are lower from the get-go is significant. whereas i feel like i help bring her back down to earth when she's a bit too stuck up or support her when she actually talks about her feelings about herself, which is rare. whereas i always want to talk about how i feel, and she helps me approach it rationally (even though she's a Fe type, not T!) and do something about it, instead of stewing. i don't know if having a strong 3w2 friend is making me seem more 3, when i am not, or making me feel like a less authentic 3, even though i am.

    and i am more emotionally reactive, as 6s are said to be. i cannot shut emotion down. it subsumes me. i read once that 3s can get their awards or accolades and then feel hollow. that doesn't happen to me. i get awards and feel proud, excited, stabilized. safe. and i do have a preoccupation with safety - not in the physical sense but in the social/intimate sense. i give my whole emotional self to the causes and people i love and that's a lot of vulnerability, so i have to really trust something if i place my faith in it, or someone, to let them in close. i am very concerned with belonging. i like to belong, and to have earned my place. i tend to ascribe more power to authority than it actually has over me, and to be constantly aware of it. i also recently read about the 6 "panel of people to consult" in their head... i do that, lol! not to "talk" to them, but because i do not want to disappoint the people close to me.

    and i'm sure you can see in play on the forums, how i feel the need to immediately reconcile things if i create controversy or negativity. not for the sake of global harmony, but for the sake of myself. (welcome to "how skylights is self-absorbed, skylights tells all" )

    this 6w7 description is extraordinarily on target for my personality:

    Sixes with a 7 wing are generally outgoing and may appear more overtly nervous. More plainly want to be liked and will pursue others in contrast to 5 wing who pulls in. Can be charming, sociable, ingratiating. Have a faster tempo, stronger connection to 3. Often self-preservation subtypes, characterized by a [i]personal warmth[i]. Can have a cheerful, forward-looking drive and be disarmingly funny. Self-effacing, gracious and curious. When more entranced, may be self-contradicting and seem as if they want two things at once. Sometimes test others overtly, drive you crazy with mixed messages. It may be hard to follow what they're saying. When threatened, one defense is to become impossible to please. When counterphobic, they tend to be accusative. Some get caught up in big plans that they hope will result in material security. Also can be insecure, irritable, petty, irrational, chaotic. Subject to mood swings, inferiority complexes, runaway fears. May have hair-trigger flare-ups of paranoia. Falsely accuse others and then seem not to realize it. Other times they plead to be taken care of. Sometimes defensively conservative in their lifestyle. Some struggle with appetite.
    i mean, that really, really, is like me. it fits much more than any 3 description i have ever read. i mean, i wish i were more organized, i wish i were more polished, i wish i were less overtly nervous (i can hide it well enough by just shutting up, but sometimes my voice betrays me - or the fact that i tell people, lol). i wish i were more go-go-go (i can be, and i'm very productive when i am, but i am not by default. i need stronger-than-usual motivation to get me going.) i do appreciate a slower-paced workplace, as long as i am free to innovate.

    honestly though i have no idea how i've ended up being torn between two stereotypically "hard worker" types. i mean yeah i work hard sometimes. and as fast as i can, because i want to get it done and not have to deal with it lol.


  7. #47
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    even if u relate to description of Pirate, Enneagram is not about descriptions, its about motivations.

    AND, yes, 3s are running from their fear and do it with trying to achieve stuff. (try reading part of maitri's book that i've uploaded, its about triangle; 9-6-3, called "the inner fall", but there might be possibility that you will end up even more confused hahahah, because as i was reading it i was relating strongly to all 3,6,9 types, and all was description of me, but only one is where i "stop". this is why it's called the fall, its where you stopped. 9 stopped at forgetting about themselves, and stopped there, they are outwardly focused in that sense, 6s went a bit further and stopped at not only forgetting themselves but becoming anxious about not having ground under their feat. 9s forgot, 6s are unsure and anxious. 3s went even further and said "Hell, i cant rely on anything else except myself, so i need to be self-made man". So they are running from fear, uncertainity.
    So you need to be careful about relating to 6 because most people do, its what is so common to most people - anxiety. And because 3s really run away from 6's position, and the more you run away the more it catches you. You become uncertain about what you do and you go to Six, but since you're not comfortable with anxiety or being in six shoes, you keep on planning and trying to fix things,... and then if all plans fail you can overburn.
    that's how it goes with all 3s i know....

    being female, FP, strong Fi, young = all can attribute to anxiety. I mean, it's not reserved for 6s, that doesnt make you a 6.

  8. #48
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    well, i am in a bit of life rut right now. perhaps i burned myself all the way around the triangle.

    that's cool though petra, where did you put maitri's book?... i will go search for it...

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled
    Okay, well, I jotted down some phrases while listening to the video. Here's my impressions (if it helps):

    Question 2 response:
    fear being meaningless
    no meaning in the grand scheme
    not have made any meaning in own life
    have a reason to exist
    worst to just exist, make meaning in your own life
    life is big dance - worst thing is not participating
    dancing in the wrong way
    afraid of not doing the right pattern, something that really represents who I am
    have a hard time figuring out who I am/should be
    This answer struck me as 3 the most. Meaningless ---> create significance ----> find a sense importance (not necessarily in yourself, but in the world) -----> drive to succeed / make an impact ------> success/status/achievement. I wish more profiles would emphasize the former parts of that link, because I think those are the healthier 3s. The unhealthy 3s are the ones stuck on shallow status, but it stems from needing significance in life.

    4s would talk more about fear of being ordinary, losing autonomy, not being able to express themselves in a unique way, etc. Although there is some 4-ish sounding stuff at the end, as far as "something that really represents who I am". If you were a 4, I'd expect talk like that to dominate your answers though....

    There is a touch of 7, possibly.....the participation part. 7s are about experience & exploration in life, and they seek to give life meaning in a sense by seeking that out. However, for them, its an end unto itself, but it sounds like to me you want some kind of results, to make some kind of a difference.
    thank you so much for the breakdown, OA, this is cool to read

    you're right about the 4ishness, i feel that too. that it is somewhat there but not the underlying drive. you're right also about 7, i do love exploring, but i expect something to come of it.

    Question 1 response:
    feel like someone has brought things out of balance
    function threads, way Fi was demonstrated as compared to Fe
    felt unfair, harmful, not represented correctly
    if people get false idea that Fi has no warmth, negative consequences too look at people/assume, bring things into balance

    not represented correctly, think that of you or other people like you
    fight fire with fire, panic, need to speak up
    backed into noble corner

    sense of universal balance being thrown off
    idea that everything deserves love & respect & identity
    needs to be defended
    The focus on balance struck me as 9 in a way - they have a strong pull to maintain/create harmony & fairness.

    However, it could be a 3 combating negative press, so to speak. 3s can be very aware of their reputation, and fear a bad one, and especially if they have a 4 wing, fear an inaccurate one. 4s can care less about negative reps, however, as long as they are accurate (and may even secretly like being misunderstood at times).

    I'm not hearing much 6 in this way......I suppose it doesn't help that much because they were your considerations anyway, but I'd go with 3w4 or 7w6 as most likely.
    yes, it's true, i veryyy much dislike a negative reputation. and there's a sense of global protectiveness in very much the same way tyra talked about her bathing suit, which i think connects to the sense of universal balance. it is about making myself look better, but, even though it's more nebulous, i think even more important than reputation is the wider implication it holds for others... it starts with me, yes, but it extends to others... fundamentally it is about us all...

  10. #50
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    well, i am in a bit of life rut right now. perhaps i burned myself all the way around the triangle.

    that's cool though petra, where did you put maitri's book?... i will go search for it...
    someone needs to reupload it for you, there was thread but 10 downloads were limit, and i uploaded it for 4x... and now dont have document anymore...

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