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Thread: 3/4/3

  1. #21
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    ground floor on this thread, as I've thought about either 3w4 or 6w5 myself

    That Bill Clinton video seems pretty close to the way I speak, actually



    I thought about this in the e3 descriptions, too. The desire to be well-liked, the inclination toward subtly reading other people in order to determine what they want you to be.. well, a comparison to a not-completely-grounded Fe is pretty hard to ignore.
    Key is the part "not completely grounded"!

    Trying to fit enneagram in cognitive functions is so wrong....

  2. #22
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Skylight, that video was so fantastic and beautiful! And your voice... looks like if you were a beautiful siren. Oh, by the way, it sounds very much like Evan Rachel Wood, so much that I really think you share the same type.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petra Pan View Post
    Trying to fit enneagram in cognitive functions is so wrong....
    I agree wholeheartedly

    It's just that "kinda, sorta looks like and/or might be interpreted to have a vague positive correlation to" is different than "absolutely is" or "definitely fits"

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Skylight, that video was so fantastic and beautiful! And your voice... looks like if you were a beautiful siren. Oh, by the way, it sounds very much like Evan Rachel Wood, so much that I really think you share the same type.
    I agree, when I heard her speak I did *not* think 3.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    3s can sound every mbti and e type there is - tthey just choose their style and attitude and act so. If they choose to sound 6-ish they will. AND they will not know it. Itis very subtle ( tlking in general didnt hear skylights vid yet)

  6. #26
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Aleksei thinks I'm a 6
    !!!
    He just told me he thinks ure either 3 or 6, and cant decide but i made qquite convincing argument for your Three he said it makes sense

    (he said ure like CP 6 in encounters, i said u told its often bc u dont want to be seen in negative light publicly - CP 6s have COMPLETELY different motive to act that way, they do it out of fear...)

  7. #27
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    Well I always test 4 or 6, and never test as 3. Also, on one test that showed percentages, 3 was actually my LOWEST score.

    However, I did find your argument somewhat convincing, but was also intrigued by the fact that a Sexual/Self-Pres 6 can look very much like a 3, and that Speed was able to show me video examples.

    I can really see the difference between myself and Sparrow.

  8. #28
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Well I always test 4 or 6, and never test as 3. Also, on one test that showed percentages, 3 was actually my LOWEST score.

    However, I did find your argument somewhat convincing, but was also intrigued by the fact that a Sexual/Self-Pres 6 can look very much like a 3, and that Speed was able to show me video examples.

    I can really see the difference between myself and Sparrow.
    The thing also is that the Sexual subtype of the 3 is "Masculine/Feminine Image" while the Sexual subtype of the 6 is "Strength & Beauty", very similars so.
    I choosed to post your respective videos because they really illustrate the differents styles and the energy associated, and with the same subtype. But it works for Self-Pres 3 and Self-Pres 6 as well, example from a Palmer's workshop:

    [youtube=lour_PvZINo]Self-Preservation 3w4[/youtube]
    [youtube=WqXjvs4APuI]Self-Preservation 6w7[/youtube]
    And as for the Sexual/Social variant:

    [youtube=FqzM0wpWMUo]Type 3 vs Type 6[/youtube]

    I think that we can see the "point", the essential differences between the two styles, and the core characteristics wich are shared by every people of the same type whatever they wing/subtype is. What is especially interesting with the second video is that Lady Gaga and Madonna are both playing a role, but they are unaware of their kinesthesic difference and so did'nt try to modify it,so the carachteristics of both types still particulary visibles.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  9. #29
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    aw you guys are so sweet about my voice, thank you

    i'm not sure i understand the kinesthetic differences between the two, speed. what i seem to notice is both 3s are somewhat less "soft". madonna looks at lady gaga more than lady gaga looks at madonna. she seems somewhat more aware of herself in relation to the other...?

    i can see it possible that i'm a 6w7 so/sx (or sx/so), more phobic than counter, or 3w4, same variants. i have a lot of trouble relating to both sp-first 3 and 6. they both are so concerned with themselves and their personal good/security - i know at some level i am as well, but i do not think overtly in those terms. i think more in terms of others - how they see me, how/where i fit in, how the person i'm interacting with feels about me, how i fit (or do not) into the environment/atmosphere, etc. i do feel concerned that i make my folded laundry look nice, because it's a reflection on myself, but i've never turned it into a competition, lol. though public events, sometimes i feel competitive. i do want people, when they see me, to be impressed/like me... though, the thing is, i'm quite artistic/aesthetic, and i don't know if the way i express that through my being, through my body, is a reflection on my enneatype, or just a reflection that i'm artistic. i feel like i am a canvas, somewhat. i can change myself to suit the atmosphere of the weather, or of my own mood, or of whatever event i am going to attend. i mostly do it for myself, though certainly i keep in mind where i am going and what i will be doing, and my "audience". my style in general is more creative/loose than a 3w2 sp/sx i know. she is more classic, seamless, perfectly suited to the occasion. i am "lighter", more flowy, more artistic. though certainly she is aesthetically gifted, as well.

    i found something that i thought was very interesting, explaining how 3 and 6 seem so similar in some aspects.

    Quote Originally Posted by enneagram institute type 6
    As the result of their formative experiences, Sixes became connected with their protective figures. [...] As children, Sixes wanted the security of approval by their protective figures, and felt anxious if they did not receive it. As they grew up, their connection with their protective figure shifted to an identification with substitutes for this person, such as civil authorities or belief systems from which they could obtain security.

    Because they are connected to the protective figure, Sixes powerfully internalize their relationship with that person, whether it is a loving, supportive one, or a difficult, destructive one. They continue to play out in their lives the relationship with the person who held authority in their early childhood years. If Sixes as children perceived that their protective figure was benevolent, and a reliable source of guidance and encouragement, as adults, they will continue to look for similar direction and support from others, be it their spouse, their job, their therapist or a mentor. They will do their best to please this figure or group, and will dutifully observe the rules and guidelines they have been given. In this case, though, Sixes will feel extremely disappointed and betrayed if the other person or situation violates their trust or fails to live up to their expectation of support. [...]

    Furthermore, just as Threes, to varying degrees, abandoned themselves to become more acceptable to their nurturing figures, Sixes abandon themselves to gain security from their protective figure or from someone or something which is acting as a substitute for that person. In both cases, Sixes feel cut off from an internal sense of their own stability, their own ability to move forward in the world with confidence. They may act this out directly, through a phobic, dependent approach to life, or they may react against it with assertive, counterphobic behavior. Either way, Sixes are not really experiencing their own inner capacity and strength, and must constantly look outside themselves for reassurance, support, and evidence of their ability to successfully engage with life. [...]

    As a result of their identification with the protective figure, whether phobic or counterphobic, Sixes are internally questioning their activities to see whether they will meet with the internalized standards of the protective figure—their superego. Like Ones, Sixes are often trying to figure out the "right" course of action, and they attempt to do this by thinking about how their various mentors, allies, and authority figures would respond to each choice. Sixes may go around and around in this process for days if the decision is a major one, because they are afraid of alienating any of their supporters. It is as though Sixes must regularly hold committee meetings in their imagination to "check in" with the different people with whom they have identified. [...] In all Sixes, the pattern of orienting themselves to life by obtaining the reassurance and approval of others (who, in one way or another, function as external sources of security and support) is one which is deeply ingrained in their nature.
    Quote Originally Posted by type 3
    As young children, Threes were connected to the nurturing-figure, the person in their early development who mirrored them, cared for them, and provided affection and a sense of value. Young Threes are highly adaptable and responsive to the emotional states of others, and so learn to adjust themselves to the reactions and subconscious expectations of their nurturing-figure. [...]

    In their formative years, Threes learn to tune into the desires and hopes of their nurturing-figure. The expectations of the nurturing-figure need not be expressed explicitly. With the remarkable intuitive gifts of children, young Threes know what will please their nurturers, and which behaviors produce approving looks and smiles. All of this is quite natural, and if the nurturing-figure is reasonably healthy, the Three will mature into a well-balanced person with good self-esteem. But to the degree that the nurturing-figure has unresolved narcissistic needs of his or her own, the Three will have to make much greater adaptations. To please the troubled nurturer, young Threes will have to abandon themselves to become the person who will be approved. In cases where the nurturer was more pathological and needy, Threes will have to disconnect from their own feelings and needs almost entirely. Little that the child can do will get the nurturing-figure to approve of them, or validate their existence. The result is a desperate individual with deep narcissistic wounds and an intense underlying hostility for being forced to abandon his or her own heart.

    As adults, Threes continue to play out this pattern from early childhood. They seek out people whom they admire and esteem to give them validation and admiration. Threes are not interested in indiscriminately getting everyone to like them: rather, they focus on specific individuals who they themselves view as valuable, successful people. Although this motivates Threes to do those things which will make them seem worthwhile to others, this also leaves them highly vulnerable to fears of rejection. They will work tirelessly to avoid ever being rejected, ever being seen as a "loser." The admiring gaze which they sought from their nurturing-figures made them feel that they were loved and valued, and in one form or another, they are always seeking that look in the eyes of others. Admiration makes them feel alive and worthwhile—at least for a while; without it, they feel empty and hostile because their underlying feelings of not being valued for who they are begin to surface.

    Average Threes perceived that, as children, they were generally valued for what they accomplished, for the quality of their performance, not for themselves. [...] Threes believe that others will only love them for their image and for their success, but if people were to really get to know them, they would see that the person beneath the image and they would be rejected. Because of difficult childhood experiences with their nurturing-figure, average Threes cannot accept the idea that others could love them just as they are. It seldom occurs to them that the most important person who has rejected them is themselves.

    To give up their performance and risk exposing the vulnerable self within feels like an enormous risk to Threes. They feel that they have been rejected in the past: why risk it again? They also become convinced that their real self is relatively undesirable and that only their performance is worthwhile. They have put so much effort into it, to give it up seems unthinkable. Yet, if Threes never take that risk, never dare to explore the real person they left behind in childhood, they may become successful in the eyes of others, but they will never know what it really is to be themselves, nor will they be able to relate to, much less feel love, from anyone else. Sadly, newspapers and magazines are full of stories of highly successful people who seemed to "have everything going for them," but who, suddenly contradict their popular image in startling and tragic ways. One can only imagine the desperation and despair of a person who has tirelessly worked to accomplish what they believed would make them feel good about themselves, only to discover that their feelings of emptiness did not go away.
    they both relate to a strong parental figure. they both look to others for approval and positive self-concept.

  10. #30
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Speed...do you have an example of a 7w6 sp/sx? Or 7w6 sx/sp? (I fear the 7 sx will be like the lead singer of Poison or something).

    I don't want to hijack skylight's thread...but Marm has changed her e-type to 6w7...and skylights is still considering it (?). I so do not have a beautiful voice LOL.

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