[Type 4] Signs You're a Type 4

[entropie]

When you start cutting creative smileys in your chest

 

[Phoenix]

When you start cutting creative smileys in your chest

And don't mind talking about it openly.

I don't have the scar anymore. It was almost half a decade ago.

And it wasn't on my chest. Though I do have the scar from the time when I stabbed myself with a knife. And then there was that one time ...

 

[Amargith]

Any tips on how you beat the first one? That's pretty much the bane of my existence.

Oops, I meant second one, but come to think of it..I jeopardise those as well. Im just really good at making up for them eventually and warning people ahead. Both relate to my need to brood in a corner away from the world. So for the first one, when I feel a mood coming on and if I can, Ill excuse myself and isolate myself to figure out what is going on.If I cannot isolate myself, Ill withdraw emotionally from the situation to not make matters worse and do the Fe-politeness thing till I can be alone. If that isnt possible coz im too miserable..I make it up to them later and let them know in the monent that this isnt their fault, and that I am sorry for the inconvenience, and Ill be fine, they dont need to worry. With my so, who sees the most of these moods, it can be a bit tricky as his happiness is tied to mine, but he has learned over the years that it will be fine and that it is ok for me to be down, and it is ok for him to do nothing. It can still make him restless and oddly I often end up cuddling him to reassure him that it will be ok while i think things through

I have yet to find a magical fix it..but I did find that with small stupid stuff, going to do something instead of brooding, like something i can handle and that needs doing anyways, can completely change my mood...unfortunately that mood often doesn want to go do somethign and so..the bolded thing bites me in the ass

 

[Phoenix]

Oops, I meant second one, but come to think of it..I jeopardise those as well. Im just really good at making up for them eventually and warning people ahead. Both relate to my need to brood in a corner away from the world. So for the first one, when I feel a mood coming on and if I can, Ill excuse myself and isolate myself to figure out what is going on.If I cannot isolate myself, Ill withdraw emotionally from the situation to not make matters worse and do the Fe-politeness thing till I can be alone. If that isnt possible coz im too miserable..I make it up to them later and let them know in the monent that this isnt their fault, and that I am sorry for the inconvenience, and Ill be fine, they dont need to worry. With my so, who sees the most of these moods, it can be a bit tricky as his happiness is tied to mine, but he has learned over the years that it will be fine and that it is ok for me to be down, and it is ok for him to do nothing. It can still make him restless and oddly I often end up cuddling him to reassure him that it will be ok while i think things through

I have yet to find a magical fix it..but I did find that with small stupid stuff, going to do something instead of brooding, like something i can handle and that needs doing anyways, can completely change my mood...unfortunately that mood often doesn want to go do somethign and so..the bolded thing bites me in the ass

Why is it that half the time your posts sound like I could have written them? I too have been warning my SO and other friends [at least the online ones - not the real life ones] about my moodiness and need to withdraw every once in a while.

The bolded part ... about Fe-politness is extremely accurate about me as well -- but in a slightly different way. I kinda become a little short but coldly polite as opposed to really polite. I'm typically charming, so when I detach and try to isolate .. the most I can muster is words like "ok" .. "yah ..." and I keep repeating mundane questions to get the other person to continue talking while I'm actually in my own head.

Do you also sometimes start feeling fake and inauthentic when just being polite, while wanting to express exactly how and why you're feeling a certain way? Maybe that's more of a 4w3 thing.

For me it's one of the most difficult binds for me .. The result is actually kinda amusing [now in retrospect anyways] .. it's like in the moment, the feelings are beyond intense and I end up saying/acting in a way that makes another person worried .. yet, I don't actually want them to worry .. yet I do want them to at least show some concern .. and then when I don't get that kind of concern I continue to act in ways that'll get the desired response.

Maybe it's because I'm tertiary Fe as well and therefore kinda manipulative with other people's feeings [really ashamed about that]. So knowing that I manipulate, I try not to manipulate but still end up doing it anyways.

 

[Amargith]

Why is it that half the time your posts sound like I could have written them? I too have been warning my SO and other friends [at least the online ones - not the real life ones] about my moodiness and need to withdraw every once in a while.

The bolded part ... about Fe-politness is extremely accurate about me as well -- but in a slightly different way. I kinda become a little short but coldly polite as opposed to really polite. I'm typically charming, so when I detach and try to isolate .. the most I can muster is words like "ok" .. "yah ..." and I keep repeating mundane questions to get the other person to continue talking while I'm actually in my own head.

Do you also sometimes start feeling fake and inauthentic when just being polite, while wanting to express exactly how and why you're feeling a certain way? Maybe that's more of a 4w3 thing.

For me it's one of the most difficult binds for me .. The result is actually kinda amusing [now in retrospect anyways] .. it's like in the moment, the feelings are beyond intense and I end up saying/acting in a way that makes another person worried .. yet, I don't actually want them to worry .. yet I do want them to at least show some concern .. and then when I don't get that kind of concern I continue to act in ways that'll get the desired response.

Maybe it's because I'm tertiary Fe as well and therefore kinda manipulative with other people's feeings [really ashamed about that]. So knowing that I manipulate, I try not to manipulate but still end up doing it anyways.

Mmm..I guess that it is the Fe that makes a difference. What I try to do, to not worry the other person in a convo, is focus solely on them and what they are saying, despite it being hard, so I can end the convo swiftly and neatly and excuse myself asap. The reason I do this is because experience has taught me that if I allow my mood to seep through when I havent had time to reflect yet (Fi), I will overload the person without wanting to and Ill feel ridiculous, exposed and ashamed of myself, instead of getting the help I need.

Though I too swing to the 2 dark side occasionally Ill do it by..I dunno how to express this....ehm, by 'appearing' sort of not present instead of saying something. People automatically respond to that with like extra care and asking like 'are you alright?' which i can shrug off, meaning I dont have to have the disastrous convo of doom, while letting them 'feel' Im a bit off today. I try to do this only with people who know me somewhat and who I know actually enjoy my presence and not at more formal events with like acquaintances and strangers only. That way, I often can put in that I actually just need some space and they will be most understanding, while I do feel like they care. I try very hard *not* to do this, but on days where Im melancholic, blue and gloomy and I cannot change that mood, it turns into brooding and others do notice. I actually enjoy that state to a certain degree, and I try telling people not to worry about it and just let me enjoy their company in quiet..which seems to work. It is kinda funny to see how people sort of..feel the need to like check you out coz you are vibing 'off' (my w5 finds it an intriguing experiment ) Most people do respect your wishes when you vibe off, and you seem like you can handle it (and if there is one thing I can handle, its my moods), so they just let you be in peace, which I very much appreciate Aside from that, most people seem to find it a curious thing, poking you a little (which can be a nice distraction) and actually enjoying it as entertainment..which helps alleviate my guilt of doing it.

As for feeling fake (I identify with both w3 and w5 btw)..that only happens when I truly am deep in those moodswings, as usually my Fi feels guilty about bothering others with this and I learned a long time ago that people really dont *wanna* know and I should respect their wishes. Its my crap to deal with, not theirs, after all. As I said, the dark side of the 2 isnt unknown to me though I will try to minimise the damage by just reassuring people I will be ok and that I just want to be near them. In my darkest moments, when nobody takes notice, I can get irrationally resentful, but it usually ends up making me smile at the resentment as I realise that it isn't their job nor their fault as Im not speaking up. And that in itself can give me some relief, as it allows me to look ironically at the mood that initiated this whole thing. It does not always break it, but I find a sort of bittersweet enjoyment out of riding it out

As for manipulation..we all need to have our dose of oxytocine and feel like we are cared for, especially in our darker hours, and we all reach out/manipulate other people to get it. I try to minimise the negative impact my reaching out would cause to people, and I try to show myself the compassion I would show someone else in my position. This is a need I have, and I shouldnt chastise myself for trying to fulfil it, as long as I try to do it in a minimally invasive way for the other person and preferably in a way that they too get enjoyment out

 

[prplchknz]

I haven't read all of these, but i don't really relate to the ones i've read. I can't believe I ever thought i was a 4w5.

 

[entropie]

And don't mind talking about it openly.

I don't have the scar anymore. It was almost half a decade ago.

And it wasn't on my chest. Though I do have the scar from the time when I stabbed myself with a knife. And then there was that one time ...

showoff

 

[Phoenix]

showoff

I know .. it's that damn 3 wing.

 

[acronach]

-when you prick your finger with a pen and use the blood to draw on a math test XD (actually seen this irl, it was kinda cool)

- Something from the past haunts you, it's like a ghost never quite leaves your presence, and it makes you feel like an empty vessel, yearning to be filled.

this can also extend to 4 wings

 

[WALMART]

"What's a 4 all about again?"

"I'm a four."

"You can't be a four, THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! *draws sword*"


true story.

 

[Reverie]

"What's a 4 all about again?"

"I'm a four."

"You can't be a four, THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! *draws sword*"


true story.

Yes... Only one!!! (keeps sword hidden and approaches with evil intent)


...I have to really be constantly on the game cause I'm also an INFJ and...also...there can only be one!!!!

 

[Phoenix]

I try to minimise the negative impact my reaching out would cause to people, and I try to show myself the compassion I would show someone else in my position.

How I envy Fi when I read things like this. My SO is a Type 2 and she can still balance reaching out versus expecting to be reached back. With my Fe at pretty much over-blown levels, when I end up in the Type 2 disintegration range, I find myself reaching out to people just for company's sake and go out of my way to keep people close by doing them favours, listening to them only talk about themselves while putting my own needs on the back-burner. I turn into an unhealthy ENFJ Type 2 and even though I have this nagging voice in the back of my head telling me to take better care of myself, I continue to ignore it till I'm completely spent and have absolutely no energy/desire left to communicate with the outside world.

Ugh .. I hate my Fe sometimes. That said ... others who are at the benefit of it seem to love it and think that I'm the most self-less person on earth. Little do they know just how hard and draining it is for me to keep up that kind of "giving". It comes from a selfish, needy core where I decide that just because someone else is spending time talking to me, I'm getting what I want, when deep down that is not the case. I want more but can't express that I do.

 

[Amargith]

How I envy Fi when I read things like this. My SO is a Type 2 and she can still balance reaching out versus expecting to be reached back. With my Fe at pretty much over-blown levels, when I end up in the Type 2 disintegration range, I find myself reaching out to people just for company's sake and go out of my way to keep people close by doing them favours, listening to them only talk about themselves while putting my own needs on the back-burner. I turn into an unhealthy ENFJ Type 2 and even though I have this nagging voice in the back of my head telling me to take better care of myself, I continue to ignore it till I'm completely spent and have absolutely no energy/desire left to communicate with the outside world.

Ugh .. I hate my Fe sometimes. That said ... others who are at the benefit of it seem to love it and think that I'm the most self-less person on earth. Little do they know just how hard and draining it is for me to keep up that kind of "giving". It comes from a selfish, needy core where I decide that just because someone else is spending time talking to me, I'm getting what I want, when deep down that is not the case. I want more but can't express that I do.

 

[Reverie]

Ugh .. I hate my Fe sometimes. That said ... others who are at the benefit of it seem to love it and think that I'm the most self-less person on earth. Little do they know just how hard and draining it is for me to keep up that kind of "giving". It comes from a selfish, needy core where I decide that just because someone else is spending time talking to me, I'm getting what I want, when deep down that is not the case. I want more but can't express that I do.

I hate my Fe too. I don't know how Fe doms deal with that beast. Maybe they should give Fe auxes "Taming your Fe" lessons since I'm sure they've had to develop strategies to survive.

 

[Phoenix]

I hate my Fe too. I don't know how Fe doms deal with that beast. Maybe they should give Fe auxes "Taming your Fe" lessons since I'm sure they've had to develop strategies to survive.

I have a Type 2 ENFJ friend .. and I've been observing her behaviour ... She's just very free when it comes to expressing herself and her feelings when she wants to. She does consider my feelings by throwing in a few placating words of warning .. but does eventually unload which I really appreciate because it makes me feel trusted enough.

Slowly I realized that since Fe with inferior Ti is the way she operates in the world, I think she rationalizes her emotional unloading as "I'm burdening you today because I know you'll be doing it some other day and I'll be there for you when you do". Which is something she does .. It's like equivalent exchange with her and I really appreciate her for it.

It sounds like a simple enough strategy on the onset --- but I'm personally not sure how to apply it to myself. I try to do the same, but I always either over-reach .. i.e. really over-burden someone with the weight of my emotions ... or not say anything at all and still make them worry .. in the end, I divert to my 3 wing and just fake it --- which is another thing that makes me feel inauthentic to my very core.

I consistently do this .. even when I think I'm reaching some sort of balance, I slip up.

PS. FYI .. anyone who's interacting with me, be warned, I'm kinda emotionally unhealthy and disintegrating these days .. so I'm probably gonna be unloading a lot here and there in my posts.

 

[Reverie]

[MENTION=14235]Phoenix[/MENTION] Don't worry about that. Everyone has their rough moments. It's definitely better than doing the INFJ retreat from the world. I know what you're talking about.

You know...I have one very close ENFJ friend and she's had this new "always speak the truth" policy. Said it works very well. Maybe they know what they're talking about. I love it though. Every time I send her my writing I get her honest opinion, no frosting.

Take care of yourself. And seriously, it's ok. " Life's a great balancing act" in the wise words of Dr. Seuss.

 

[wistfulwillow]

- You make others miserable when you're miserable and then try to make them happy
- You find ways to consistently sabotage relationships over and over again even though they are extremely important to you
- No matter what happens in a soured relationship it always feels mostly your own fault
- You oscillate between self-love and self-hate .. but mostly self-hate
- You cannot do anything unless you're in the right mood .. even though you know that you shouldn't wait for the right mood and just chug through, but you still do.
- You are already self-aware that your own poor sleeping/eating habits are contributing to your ill moods and yet fail to act to make the change because you're waiting to be in the right emotional state to be in to make that change
- You want to love the world and everything that resides within and yet you can't love yourself.
- When hating yourself is acceptable, but being hated by someone else isn't.

Story of my life. Thanks for posting. Now I feel a little less weird, which as a 4, is both a blessing and a curse.

 

[Standuble]

Wow, I think I may have finally settled my enneagram as 4w5. A big thank you to all involved.

Wait, what am I talking about? If I take the plunge I'm not so special and unique after all. Goddarnit!

 

[the state i am in]

~you've always wanted to live in france

but another reason why. it speaks for itself.

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/465/france/2012/10/24/3475581/zidane-statue-causes-controversy

 

[IllusoryReverie]

-Often attracted to melancholic song lyrics/poetry/quotes. Or, at least, anything that encompasses what seems to be a constant emotion of your own.
I've found that this song for me personally brings out my empathy for what the singer/writer was feeling. I can really connect with it somehow.

On a thousand islands in the sea,
I see a thousand people just like me
A hundred unions in the snow
I watched them walking, falling in a row
We live always underground
It's going to be so quiet in here tonight
A thousand islands in the sea,
It's a shame

And a hundred years ago
A sailor trod this ground I stood upon
Take me away everyone
When it hurts thou

From my head to my toes
From the words in the book
I see a vision that would bring me luck
From my head to my toes
To my teeth, through my nose
You get these words wrong
You get these words wrong
Every time
You get these words wrong
I just smile

But from my head to my toes
From my knees to my eyes
Every time I watch the sky
For these last few days leave me alone
But for these last few days leave me alone
Leave me alone
Leave me alone​