• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[Type 8] 8s v THE WORLD!!!1!

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
/booming voice


~ A deep desire, nay, compulsion for control over self, environment and people.

~ Inability to allow vulnerability.

~ A fear of being controlled by others.


How do you 8s and winger 8s approach those areas of your Enneagram?

If you see any as things that are not appropriate at all times how do you release control to others and stop yourself from recoiling from your own vulnerabilities?
 

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
I fight for control over them all. Or I side step. Wait... I don't have any compulsion over others. Myself and my environment yeah...
 

Goosebump

New member
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
129
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
9
/booming voice


~ A deep desire, nay, compulsion for control over self, environment and people.

~ Inability to allow vulnerability.

~ A fear of being controlled by others.


How do you 8s and winger 8s approach those areas of your Enneagram?

If you see any as things that are not appropriate at all times how do you release control to others and stop yourself from recoiling from your own vulnerabilities?

I wouldn't say I have a compulsion to control. It's more like the need of being in control of myself and what I do, exerting force when I feel that someone is overstepping my boundary. So to me, it's not about controlling others but about not letting others control me.

Sometimes I could come off as being aggressive, especially when I was younger. For the most part, I try to be assertive and keep it on the issue instead of the person. Though I can't say I succeed every time :p
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm a 4w3, but my tritype is 4-8-5 so I can relate to a lot of this. healthy 4s and 8s really aren't that different from each other, even if they appear to be on the outside.
1) both desire independence and are usually willing to do anything to get it
2) if you get in their way, both types are vicious
3) both want things to be real and have no patience with people who are fake and watered down
4) healthy 8s become more excepting and healthy 4s become stronger (although unhealthy 8s and 4s are usually pretty different)
5) both don't like the vast majority of people
6) you really can't make a 4 or an 8 do anything they don't want do, unless you have a ton of leverage on them (and they will work to be free of this leverage ASAP)
7) both of them want you to tell them exactly what is on your mind, and they're willing to except anything you say if it's honest.
8) 4s and 8s both need their personal space more than most types (except for 5s, they tend to need a lot too)

people misunderstand 8s most of the time though. most people think they're cruel, heartless and controlling. 8s are anything but. they're too busy doing their thing to want to control yours and they don't want to anyway because they know how much it pisses them off when others try to do it to them. my best friend is an INTJ 8w7 and we get along because we can be 100% honest with each other and we just give each other suggestions and exchange information constantly. it's funny because we don't go along with anything until we're convinced and we frequently talk for several hours at a time about something we disagree with, which is fine because neither of us takes things personally.
 

VagrantFarce

Active member
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
1,558
Courage-Wolf-FALL-DOWN-SEVEN-TIMES-GET-UP-EIGHT.jpg


Courage-Wolf-Bite-off-more-than-you-can-Chew-AND-CHEW-IT.jpg


Courage-Wolf-SEIZE-WHAT-IS-YOURS-YOU-ONLY-LIVE-ONCE.jpg


life-getting-tough-means-God-is-scared-of-your-progress.jpg
 

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
Enneagram
8w9
/booming voice

Check.

~ A deep desire, nay, compulsion for control over self, environment and people.

I've got the first two nailed down. And I've found that delegating responsibility to others while showing them how our aims are convergent helps me find others to pursue common goals.

~ Inability to allow vulnerability.

I've gotten so much better at this as I aged (showing vulnerability that is).

~ A fear of being controlled by others.

I'm OK being controlled by others as long as they are competent and I agree with the goals we are working towards. :yes:


If you see any as things that are not appropriate at all times how do you release control to others and stop yourself from recoiling from your own vulnerabilities?

By delegating responsibility to others in a work environment so as not to take on too much and crash & burn, and by making close friends and SO's who I can trust with knowledge of my vulnerability.
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I wouldn't say I have a compulsion to control. It's more like the need of being in control of myself and what I do, exerting force when I feel that someone is overstepping my boundary. So to me, it's not about controlling others but about not letting others control me.

That's more accurate for me too. Do you struggle with the vulnerability aspect?


I'm OK being controlled by others as long as they are competent and I agree with the goals we are working towards. :yes:

Indeed, seems like a good balance to have, no point allowing someone incompetent to control things. So that leaves vulnerability...

I've gotten so much better at this as I aged (showing vulnerability that is).

...and by making close friends and SO's who I can trust with knowledge of my vulnerability.

Trust is important, but even with that I struggle to a degree, one of the issues is acknowledging vulnerabilities to myself, let alone others. How have you improved on things?
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
13,964
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
8
~ A deep desire, nay, compulsion for control over self, environment and people.

This is definitely a driving factor. Via control, to me, I can gain so much, both good and bad. With control, I can guide the mediums used to go down either path. It is such a simple word, that is so complex and identifies so much for me. I truly cannot say enough about how much this word, ironically, runs my life.
Control over myself.. I do with several things. I regulate what I want.. I save money, and I enjoy budgeting my funds. I meditate, exercise, and eat right.. to give me at least some control over my physical body.
Control over my environment. I meditate, analyze, and learn. I interact with people of all sorts, and get many perspectives. I stay open minded, and educate myself on the things around me to be better prepared.
Control over others... This one I have no at all mastered.. but I do acknowledge that I can manipulate things to my favor at times. Generally, if they are a stranger, I care not for them. If they are people in my life I care for.. I generally want what is best for them.. so I suppose I have control over others in the sense that I try my best to ensure that myself, their environment, and themselves are secure and protected.

~ Inability to allow vulnerability.

I had a run in with this last night as a matter of fact.. every so often, I know how much it stings to be vulnerable. I think part of the reason I get so scared of being feminine is that sense of vulnerability that comes with it. If I met a nice guy, and settled down with him, I may yet again learn how to handle this.. On my own, however, it remains the bane of my existence. Any weakness and shortcoming is accented. Telling me what I am not capable of enrages me.. because not only do I have a weakness there, but someone knows about it now. Mainly, I am best at handling it via trust. I put my trust into people.. being optimistic about that trust succeeding and helping me in my favor, and being sure to value theirs in return, is some of the most positive ways I've dealt with this point.

~ A fear of being controlled by others.

Anything. It's scary, all of it. I'm scared of fire and electricity because of how out of control it can become so quickly. Disease, illness.. the scope of it all makes my stomach wretch. The thought of someone toying with me like a puppet, probing me and testing me.. especially when I am an open book and go out of my way to give them forward, and honest ways of learning about me... it's awful in my head. My run in's with authority are split. I can respect a position of authority over me.. but it's come from hard work that I've been able to do that.

If you see any as things that are not appropriate at all times how do you release control to others and stop yourself from recoiling from your own vulnerabilities?

I think forgiveness is a major helper with everything. It's been defined before as "stopping a person and situation from hurting you." TRuly, I feel this is the best definition for it. Forgiving situations makes me feel more in control of my environment and the others interacting in it.

I feel it is appropriate to let go during several things.. once I notice someone is more experienced and wise, I cannot help but trust them. Im not arrogant, so I dont feel like I know more than someone more experienced. Systems, rules and regulations help me respect authority figures even if I dont like them. As long as I know there's a strict set of rules to go by, I can easily feel secure in the system without them bothering me too much. With my own vulernabilities. I challenge them. I snowboard even though I hate the cold, and heights. It's an amazing experience, to be so scared but have so much fun. I run even though I dont like it. I push myself on everything I feel I fall short on. I feel it keeps me sane.
 

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
Enneagram
8w9
Trust is important, but even with that I struggle to a degree, one of the issues is acknowledging vulnerabilities to myself, let alone others. How have you improved on things?

By being as honest and open about myself as I can on this forum for one thing.

It really takes me a while to truly trust someone IRL in lieu of the fact that I have been hurt more times than I care to mention for trusting too quickly.

Thus... I have used this forum as a safe place (mostly) for me to be honest with myself about myself in a venue where the possible negative consequences of doing so are greatly minimized.

I have revealed more info about myself, and most importantly about my thought processes on here than I ever have in real life.

The worst thing that can happen on here from being honest about myself is some idiot through a screen rips on me from 1000's of miles away.

The best thing that can happen is I truly connect with people on this forum in such a way that we form lasting relationships that can transcend the electronic medium through which we communicate... :yes:

Basically, thanks everyone whose been there for me, or given me advice and support. :worthy:

Your continuing care and interest in my small life has given me some desperately needed comfort in some of the darkest times of my life. :yes:

Now that things are better, I look forward to keeping you all informed and helping each in whatever small way I can.
 

Goosebump

New member
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
129
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
9
That's more accurate for me too. Do you struggle with the vulnerability aspect?

So I'm reading your question as "How do you feel about letting others see your vulnerable side?"

I will let others know some of my vulnerable aspects, but these are usually the ones I don't feel strongly about anyway. I only allow few people in my life (those who are very close to me) know what I really feel uncomfortable about. Even then, it's difficult to share. I find others telling me about their insecurities and letting themselves be vulnerable to me, and I have no problem with that, but many times I find it hard to reciprocate.

Basically to most people, I only share what I don't consider as "true weaknesses".
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
/booming voice
/soft spoken voice.
~ A deep desire, nay, compulsion for control over self, environment and people.
Control over self is a good thing. Not going to try to modify this one bit. Control over environment and people is something I've worked on for awhile with some successes and failures. The older I get, the less I need to be in charge unless the person(s) in charge are doing anything less than a reasonable job. Then the need flares up again. A work in progress and as instinctual as 8's are, particulary 8w7s with variant sx/sp, will be a lifelong work in progress.
~ Inability to allow vulnerability.
Don't know if you've noticed but I'm quite open on TypeC, in some ways wide, wide open down to the core of me and in other ways, very private, particularly when it comes to common sense issues like giving out name, phone number or location and a number of other things that I feel are no one else's business.

If when I've revealed vulnerability and someone has used it against me, they will never be able to hurt me again since their opinion has stopped counting. If anything, they're considered a waste of any further time or energy.
~ A fear of being controlled by others.
By knowing and accepting that no one can control me unless I consciously or subconsciously give them permission.

Kasper, there maybe some members who disagree with what I'm going to say next but tough! ;)

You're a Fe user so the way that's comfortable with myself as a Fi user, might not work for you.
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
~ A deep desire, nay, compulsion for control over self, environment and people.

This is definitely a driving factor. Via control, to me, I can gain so much, both good and bad. With control, I can guide the mediums used to go down either path. It is such a simple word, that is so complex and identifies so much for me. I truly cannot say enough about how much this word, ironically, runs my life.
Control over myself.. I do with several things. I regulate what I want.. I save money, and I enjoy budgeting my funds. I meditate, exercise, and eat right.. to give me at least some control over my physical body.
Control over my environment. I meditate, analyze, and learn. I interact with people of all sorts, and get many perspectives. I stay open minded, and educate myself on the things around me to be better prepared.

The first two sound very positive, I like. I don't tend to have much issue with the last so I'll leave that one. With the above two, a lot of that sounds at odds with your ENFPness, did you have to work towards using the control factor in a positive way or was that pretty natural for you?


By being as honest and open about myself as I can on this forum for one thing.

Have you found doing so has had a flow on effect IRL?


I find others telling me about their insecurities and letting themselves be vulnerable to me, and I have no problem with that, but many times I find it hard to reciprocate.

Basically to most people, I only share what I don't consider as "true weaknesses".

Jinx!


Don't know if you've noticed but I'm quite open on TypeC, in some ways wide, wide open down to the core of me and in other ways, very private, particularly when it comes to common sense issues like giving out name, phone number or location and a number of other things that I feel are no one else's business.

Yup. What about IRL?

Kasper, there maybe some members who disagree with what I'm going to say next but tough! ;)

You're a Fe user so the way that's comfortable with myself as a Fi user, might not work for you.

*sloppy fe hug*

I don't disagree that your approach as an ENTJ 8w7 with inf Fi is quite different to me as an ENTP 7w8 with tert Fe, but alternative approaches is exactly what I want to hear, see the thing is my current approach doesn't work as right now I just allow my control and vulnerability issues to be in charge.

Not all alternative views are equal of course, I couldn't very well ask an ISFJ 2w1 for tips on how to overcome those issues as they're probably not issues for them in the first place and if they are they would likely have no desire to harness control and fear of vulnerability in a positive manner to improve themself. Like Ky, I see both of those issues as positive traits when harnessed in the right way, my 8 wing is something that can be very healthy for me at times, I just want tools and tips for focusing them so they can be limited to positive uses, not disarmed entirely.

I expect anyone who relates to E8 will have control and fear of vulnerability as part of their vices, so Fi or Fe is irrelevant to me, success at harnessing them is what matters. 
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
Yup. What about IRL?
Had to think about that for awhile and yes, same thing. The appropriate time, place and interested person. The difference is being able to express it verbally, compared to in writing. On a medium like TypeC, you have the leisure to think about what you want to express so it comes across in a more complete way. But it's true in real life that it's rare that I express myself when working through a problem. Most often, it's after I've already reached a decision or the problem has been resolved. On TypeC, I will express the problem with the hopes that the diverse nature of the input will help, as long as it's provided as information rather than having it rammed down my throat.

*sloppy fe hug*
*looks around and sees that no one is noticing*

*Quick but warm hug back.*
I don't disagree that your approach as an ENTJ 8w7 with inf Fi is quite different to me as an ENTP 7w8 with tert Fe, but alternative approaches is exactly what I want to hear, see the thing is my current approach doesn't work as right now I just allow my control and vulnerability issues to be in charge.

Not all alternative views are equal of course, I couldn't very well ask an ISFJ 2w1 for tips on how to overcome those issues as they're probably not issues for them in the first place and if they are they would likely have no desire to harness control and fear of vulnerability in a positive manner to improve themself. Like Ky, I see both of those issues as positive traits when harnessed in the right way, my 8 wing is something that can be very healthy for me at times, I just want tools and tips for focusing them so they can be limited to positive uses, not disarmed entirely.

I expect anyone who relates to E8 will have control and fear of vulnerability as part of their vices, so Fi or Fe is irrelevant to me, success at harnessing them is what matters. 
My apologies. Only you know what might help you. :)
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,908
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
/booming voice

Rarely. I don't like to use energy that way.

~ A deep desire, nay, compulsion for control over self, environment and people.

I don't have much compulsion to control others. I have a huge need to control myself and my own environment. Only when someone feels the need to mess with my environment will I step in and stop them.

~ Inability to allow vulnerability.

This was the most difficult one. I had to start trusting the people who cared about me. When I did I was able to show vulnerability without fearing it would be used as a weapon against me. This took a long time and it's still in progress.

~ A fear of being controlled by others.
I don't know that I fear being controlled by others. My instinct says to be wary of it. If leadership is competent I can follow that but I keep an eye on it. In my personal environment, my home and family I know it is not healthy or beneficial to be a control freak. It also creates resentment. If someone from outside tried controlling my personal environment, yeah, that would be an extremely bad outcome for them.
 

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
I'm not sure how I go about the vulnerability one. I feel like I deal with vulnerability by myself. I don't really fear having it used against me, it's something different. It is more like I fear indifference to vulnerability. Something exposed that might as well have stayed hidden.
 

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
It's going to be funny if my vulnerability to indifference of my vulnerability is met with indifference.
 
Top