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  1. #31
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    I'm a senior level software developer that cares about people. I'm happy to entertain you. Yes, I could run circles around anyone that does not operate at optimum (level 1); it's not up for debate; it's a fact.
    And being a senior level software developer is a big deal?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    I'm a senior level software developer that cares about people. I'm happy to entertain you. Yes, I could run circles around anyone that does not operate at optimum (level 1); it's not up for debate; it's a fact.


    This thread is for 8's, btw... not 9's trying to be 8's.

  3. #33
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    I can see why you don't like it. It does have the heavy tinge of type 2 in it, while the description for the healthiest 5 for example just seems like, well, a 5. I guess at the healthiest level the 8 should be able to feel like they can be those things without fear: without feeling that they will be taken advantage of and controlled by opening up. They can let up with the constant vigilance. I definitely don't think they're like the description above all the time, like it implies.

    The second level does sound better.



  4. #34
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    You're not paying any attention to what I've previously written about moving towards a two. The integration is one that I personally refuse to make since it means embracing Fe beliefs which I fully reject as what's considered emotionally healthy for an 8, by Riso and Hudson. Heroes and martyrs are about as far from being emotionally healthy as you can get.

    Breaking it down:

    Level 1 (At Their Best):

    Become self-restrained - assumes that 8s require self-restraint. Not everyone will be nutbar 8. Some of us do have control over ourselves already.
    and magnanimous, - this word bleeds condescension. Superior to inferior.
    merciful and forbearing - more condescension. Superior to inferior.
    mastering self through their self-surrender to a higher authority. - complete and utter religious or spiritual horse pucks.
    Courageous, willing to put self in serious jeopardy to achieve their vision and have a lasting influence. - More posturing. Who cares about self-sacrifice and lasting influence? Martyrs need their heads examined.
    May achieve true heroism and historical greatness. - Who cares? Not sure how many times I need to say that I have zero interest in becoming a narcissistic hero.
    Yeah. Take a look at Ghandi. The unhealthy, condescending, narcissistic and superior bastard. Who did he think he was?

    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    No. I think level 1 sounds balanced. A strong person capable of doing what's best for the overall well being of society as a whole. Self-restraint is not nutbar, it's an attractive quality. Merciful is beautiful. Self-surrender is so humbling to witness. Heroism is truly admirable. If the world would be more like this, it would be like heaven.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Not even sure why you're even in this thread. As a 9 even with an 8 wing, it's like an INFP trying to be an ENTJ. Not going to happen.
    I agree with perfectgirl.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  5. #35
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    im not going to read all the comments. You do know level 1 and 2 is something only very few 8s gets to, right? Usually level 3-5 is the normal 8 description.

  6. #36
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    I agree with perfectgirl.
    ^ seconded.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I agree with perfectgirl.
    So do I.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I can see why you don't like it. It does have the heavy tinge of type 2 in it, while the description for the healthiest 5 for example just seems like, well, a 5. I guess at the healthiest level the 8 should be able to feel like they can be those things without fear: without feeling that they will be taken advantage of and controlled by opening up. They can let up with the constant vigilance. I definitely don't think they're like the description above all the time, like it implies.

    The second level does sound better.
    to bolded, yes if you are Einstein

  9. #39
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    to bolded, yes if you are Einstein

    Yeah they're all like that. They're basically describing the upper limits of the types. I don't think many get that far, but it seems like they sell these "levels of health" as though everyone hits them at some point. IMO, Helen Palmer's spectrum of healthy/unhealthy is far more realistic in terms of scope.



  10. #40
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    There is a distinct gender divide and I, as a woman feel the enneagram descriptions for 8's doesn't address this at all. The generalised description of 8's are easy to relate to, to some degree. That's why I don't question that I'm an 8w7 but one who believes that moving towards a 5 is more applicable to myself, for the purposes of self-actualisation.

    Balance shouldn't be towards more instinctual levels, which includes emotions, especially Fe based expectations for Level 1.

    So, ultimately, I reject the upper health levels and find them, as well as the unhealthy levels, too over-the-top. I have no interest in becoming a martyr and a hero. Very emotionally unhealthy.

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