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[Type 9] Eights, What's Your Take On This?

rav3n

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Aug 6, 2010
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Interesting point. I was curious about what you said here and so looked it up.

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/history.asp

If there is wisdom that is common amongst the world's religions, that might mean something.
As an agnostic atheist, I'd rather rely on science. Too much of the worst attrocities enacted by human beings were done with the blessings of whatever governing body resided within the specific organised religion. And organised religion is all about herding the sheep.
 

highlander

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As an agnostic atheist, I'd rather rely on science. Too much of the worst attrocities enacted by human beings were done with the blessings of whatever governing body resided within the specific organised religion. And organised religion is all about herding the sheep.

I understand what you you are saying but regardless as to whether or not someone believes in a particular religion, the truths and values that appear to be common among them would be something worth considering. That is, they would have stood the test of time.
 

rav3n

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I understand what you you are saying but regardless as to whether or not someone believes in a particular religion, the truths and values that appear to be common among them would be something worth considering. That is, they would have stood the test of time.
Surprisingly, I have read and understood everyone's comments in this thread but question the process of how they've arrived at their values.

One thing's for certain. I won't embrace any 'wisdom' unless it stands up to the test of logical analysis by each individual, as it relates to self and understanding that there isn't only one perspective of anything. You might be surprised at what values I actually agree with and how many I have, but they are mine to live with, not something to force onto anyone else or at best, how I can control my natural inclinations to extrovert those values.
 

rav3n

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This song came to mind about loss of belief, religion inclusive. Love this song.

Losing My Religion
- REM

Life is bigger
It's bigger than you
And you are not me
The lengths that I will go to
The distance in your eyes
Oh no I've said too much
I set it up

That's me in the corner
That's me in the spotlight
Losing my religion
Trying to keep up with you
And I don't know if I can do it
Oh no I've said too much
I haven't said enough
I thought that I heard you laughing
I thought that I heard you sing
I think I thought I saw you try

Every whisper
Of every waking hour I'm
Choosing my confessions
Trying to keep an eye on you
Like a hurt lost and blinded fool
Oh no I've said too much
I set it up

Consider this
The hint of the century
Consider this
The slip that brought me
To my knees failed
What if all these fantasies
Come flailing around
Now I've said too much
I thought that I heard you laughing
I thought that I heard you sing
I think I thought I saw you try

But that was just a dream
That was just a dream

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwUZVkKfE70"]:) :([/YOUTUBE]
 
T

ThatGirl

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To the OP, as an 8 I find it annoying that all the best things we can become are what is best for other people :dry:
 

highlander

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Surprisingly, I have read and understood everyone's comments in this thread but question the process of how they've arrived at their values.

Nothing wrong with that. Good point.

One thing's for certain. I won't embrace any 'wisdom' unless it stands up to the test of logical analysis by each individual, as it relates to self and understanding that there isn't only one perspective of anything. You might be surprised at what values I actually agree with and how many I have, but they are mine to live with, not something to force onto anyone else or at best, how I can control my natural inclinations to extrovert those values.

Of course there isn't one perspective on anything and people are all different. However, the implication of some of what you're saying is that the logical analysis of one individual is superior to the collective wisdom of humanity. I'm struggling with words to describe how I feel about this but isn't that a bit arrogant?

The concern about thrusting one's values on others is understandable.
 

MacGuffin

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This is it! This is why enneagram offends me so much. It's like a gigantic Fe-based framework of someone's interpretation of a how each personality type should fit, in order to create their definition of a functional society.

So thanks everyone for your input, no matter what it was. Now I can happily reject the entire theory. :yay:

LOL, that's the spirit!

While I think the enneagram has some useful ideas, there are are some serious blind spots and illogical aspects to it that I've never been able to fully embrace. I suspect it doesn't fully, and never will, fit you.
 

rav3n

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Of course there isn't one perspective on anything and people are all different. However, the implication of some of what you're saying is that the logical analysis of one individual is superior to the collective wisdom of humanity. I'm struggling with words to describe how I feel about this but isn't that a bit arrogant?
There are two reasons why individuals should always question collective wisdom.

One is centered around the word individual. Are you and I identical? If not, are all the individuals who made up the collective wisdom identical to you and I? If not, why would anyone rely on others who aren't the same, to define how they should live their lives beyond what's punishable within social contracts like law? And even then, not all laws are fair to or right for every individual since there are no universal laws governing every person on this earth.

The second reason would be the same reason why people shouldn't participate in lynch mobs unless they honestly understand the issues and agree with the form of justice that's being enacted on the individual being lynched. In other words, prosecution or persecution.

LOL, that's the spirit!

While I think the enneagram has some useful ideas, there are are some serious blind spots and illogical aspects to it that I've never been able to fully embrace. I suspect it doesn't fully, and never will, fit you.
Thanks. And you're right. It's not for me.
 

Udog

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Nowhere have I said that forgiveness wasn't worthwhile. But rote anything is pretty meaningless.

This is different from wanting to be a source of inspiration and deliberately working towards this goal.

This is once again different than working towards being heroic or deliberately martyring oneself to attain heroic status.

There were qualifiers in the wording that gave me the impression that the Level 1 description was suggesting a capacity to be heroic, forgiving, etc, rather than aiming to be those things directly.

Since we each have stances and are debating the issues, each presenter must prove their stance, much like my proof to you about E2s and Fe.

Yeah, but I never claimed the heroism was based on altruism. Rather, not all heroes seeking the status was an example of how it wasn't necessarily narcissistic.

While it may appear to be an act of heroism, it wasn't a manufactured act. It's biological imperative that drives mothers to take bullets or burns for their children. Species continuity.

It wasn't her children.
 
H

Hate

Guest
:laugh: I had taken it seriously, but I really didn't pay attention to WHO was posting. Had I, instead of multi-quoting, I probably wouldn't have at all. :doh: My apologies ;)

:)

Because of that I am imposing multiple hugs on you :hug::hug::hug: since I know just how much kyuuei luuuuuuuuvs cuddling. :tongue10:
 

kyuuei

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:rofl1: A story so true, if published it would be filed in the 'non-fiction' section.
 
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