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  1. #81
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Marilyn Manson is a good example of an INTJ 4. More emotionally sensitive, more NiFi. Carries a sense of grief or sorrow with them, wallows in their emotions, more likely to feel bereft, has a longing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post
    An unhealthy 4 will withdraw and introspect to quite an extreme, as I did through depression, but like you said is a mature 4 is what I call a healthy 4 and they very much want to be out in the world. It seems contradictory that "their supposed strength is their weakness." But that's only in theory, as it can only be assumed that a tertiary function is by default a weakness. However INTJ 4w5s are very much about their "inner world", and find ways to implement in the outside world. Enneagram is more about behaviors and what motivates you, as your MBTI is more about how you're brain cognitively functions and effects your personality.
    I think both systems touch on behavioral patterns but address different kinds of, and in both cases behavior is not the end point of the type but is a result of the specific type structure. In some cases the behavior also overlaps or correlates with each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    @Gizmo seems more like 1w9 imo, they're big on nature and maturity
    lmao no offense, but just reading the few posts here by Gizmo (first time I've run into him), he oozes 4ness beyond. A couple of reasons why, but the major ones being that throughout the posts he's written, he keeps reinforcing his unique identity and how this has led him to being different and misunderstood, and he uses his own personal narrative experience of how he's emotionally experienced this to reinforce this point and at the same time want to have his unique identity acknowledged and recognized by others. Great showcase of type 4 logic through and through. 1s? They will focus on wrong/right, the proper way to be. There's nothing Gizmo has written that suggests he's concerned about rightness in such a way.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  2. #82
    Member Gizmo's Avatar
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    I don't see it. He really seems more like a 4w5 INFP, kinda similar to Johnny Depp.
    ~ Only your heart can poison your mind. ~

  3. #83
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post
    I don't see it. He really seems more like a 4w5 INFP, kinda similar to Johnny Depp.
    If you are referring to Marilyn Manson, I used to think he was an INFP but I had to revise. When he explains himself and how he sees things, it's very clearly Ni with thinking. He defines things impersonally, he expresses an ability to see things from a multitude of perspectives and has an agnostic perception where objects in themselves are meaningless and meaning is something we choose to attribute, that symbolic power is something that is connoted rather than intrinsic. He also approaches his own artistic imagery in the very same way, expressing that he wants to embody various archetypes by donning a specific role to play. Very much Ni.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  4. #84
    Member Gizmo's Avatar
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    I suppose maybe it's just that I really don't want to relate to the guy... He is such a depressing character, but from your description it could be totally possible. If I venture to agree with you... I'm going to say that he would have to be an example of a very unhealthy INTJ 4w5.
    ~ Only your heart can poison your mind. ~

  5. #85
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post
    I suppose maybe it's just that I really don't want to relate to the guy... He is such a depressing character, but from your description it could be totally possible. If I venture to agree with you... I'm going to say that he would have to be an example of a very unhealthy INTJ 4w5.
    You don't have to relate to him. Just pointing out that he's an example of an INTJ 4 as a way to kill the myth that thinkers can't be 4s. Sure enough, he is often mistaken as a feeler undoubtly due to being a 4, but I don't see much evidence suggesting he is a feeler outside of 4ness sensitivity. He thinks in terms of Ni and Fi, so that leaves us with INTJ unless we'd go ISFP which makes much less sense.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  6. #86
    Member Gizmo's Avatar
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    I see what you're getting at.
    ~ Only your heart can poison your mind. ~

  7. #87
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    I think you can be an INTJ 4w5. I'm pretty sure that's what my best friend is because I'm a 4w3 and he's just as individualistic as I am. He tends to refer to most people as peasants while I call them the illiterate masses lol not that I'm condoning that but let's be honest if you're a 4 it's entered your mind. So if you've taken a trustworthy test and gotten INTJ I would trust it.

  8. #88
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    I saw one thing say 4 is for the Ni
    Maybe true
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  9. #89
    Member Gizmo's Avatar
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    I've actually thought pretty deep about the connection between Ni and Fi. I can admitt going into this weird psychosis when ever Im on stage dance whether it's ballet, or stripping. Even though I'm around people once I hear music, and start dancing the patterns within the rhythm sorta take over... There is a wicked amount of emotion that is intertwined... It's just a constant tango between my Analytical norm, pattern recognition, and emotional self... All of this sorta ties together to create a whole new world.... A world in which I see myself as a composer placing all chaos into an organized rhythm that I'm free to manipulate... Weird I know.
    ~ Only your heart can poison your mind. ~

  10. #90
    Member Gizmo's Avatar
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    Another connection that I made, is that the 4 is labeled as the individualist, and my "strategy" on MBTI is "confident individualism"...
    ~ Only your heart can poison your mind. ~

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