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  1. #61
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    INTJ type 4's are very rare. They are emotional, but the emotions run under the surface... it's not obvious. You might notice that they wear a unique style of clothing that is them, but very functional. When it comes to their work, they will go out of their way to make sure it is original to their style, and keep themselves from being in a specific niche. They are very creative in solving problems, and want to make sure it is done their way, with their own flair. They will tend to romanticize intellectual pursuits and ideas, and if they have artistic abilities, will produce work that is reflective of romanticism, yearning, but the romanticism goes through a brain filter. You will notice that an INTJ 4 will have an air of refinement and elegance to them, very sophisticated, yet they are soft-spoken. While they are confident on what they know, don't know, and their abilities, they might be hard on themselves, especially when they don't achieve the desired outcome of their goals. INTJ 4's will never, or rarely, compromise who they are and what they create just to make it more popular. They want to adhere to their inner values. INTJ 4's are very unassuming and may have a difficult time promoting their vision. They feel much more comfortable being in the background. You might notice an INTJ 4 will have a wannabe rebellious streak, and their form of rebellion will be an intellectual/artistic adventure. They might read literature that contains individualistic themes, presents a cynical view of authority, and will tend to like art that varies from the traditional to things that have an almost dark quality to it. They might like listening to music that is a bit intense, but also like music that is slow and heavy, and the delicate and beautiful. They are difficult to please when it comes to artistic and musical tastes, and may not like what is trendy, they avoid trends at all costs. INTJ 4's are also in their own worlds... they may find books, music, and art better than the chaotic/noisy world around them.

    Never argue with an INTJ 4 though... be prepared for them to get a bit defensive, and temperamental.
    Interesting, I relate a lot to the style component (in contrast with other INTJs IME) and the other bolded aspects...I could see myself with a rather strong 4 wing (5w4), though I doubt I'm a 4...I'm strongly involved with the arts through my interest in research, but I don't have such a strong personal/subjective involvement with them, with the object of my research.

    I do think I may know an INTJ 4 (an artist)...we resonate.
    Likes Gizmo liked this post

  2. #62
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    I just joined this site as I was interested in this particular thread. I am 4w5 sx/sp and a very clear INTJ.
    I've seen here and there that some people claim that INTJ cannot be 4 ... and I know it can be confusing, but it is possible as I am very clearly 4 (although tests tend to place me as a 5, but that might be the INTJ way of functionning).

    I've seen a quotation that states
    "INTJ at Enneagram 4
    The elite loner who thinks everyone else is shallow and unsophisticated."

    I am a bit desperate because I am actually an elite loner, but what I am looking for is an environment of intelligent, generous, kind, witty and cultivated people, which would be happiness to me.
    I am kind of withdrawing from the world as I cannot change unefiicient and corrupt behaviours in the institution (and my INTJ way to function detests such mediocre corruption) and my 4w5 nature makes me a loner anyway.

    So, any enneatype 4 INTJ that has managed to avoid being an "elitist loner"? (I hope that it is an elitist in good elit company, rather than a gregarious anti-elitist)

  3. #63
    Member Bnova's Avatar
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    Same here,looking for answers ,I need to find my balance again,in this world where we are few in number and with such few resources to obtain knowledge about our rare and humble selves we ofcourse as truth seekers seek the truth of ourselves in a world where our rarity may come as an absolute weakness towards finding true answers about ourselves,all we need is clear path we can grasp knowledge of to reach a state wherein we can find the possible answers for ourselves

  4. #64
    Senior Member Rambling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bnova View Post
    Same here,looking for answers ,I need to find my balance again,in this world where we are few in number and with such few resources to obtain knowledge about our rare and humble selves we ofcourse as truth seekers seek the truth of ourselves in a world where our rarity may come as an absolute weakness towards finding true answers about ourselves,all we need is clear path we can grasp knowledge of to reach a state wherein we can find the possible answers for ourselves
    I'm a 5w6 4w3 and 8w9 I think...certainly in the Heart area I think I'm a 4, after a fair amount of studying. i read that a four often alternates between feeling like a three and feeling like a five when growing up, and that is certainly true of me.

  5. #65
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Well, crap. After reading this thread, I'm more sure than ever that I am INxJ.

    To those who recently posted (specifically @euro4), I have avoided (or perhaps recovered from) being an "elite loaner". In my opinion, it requires deep brokenness and emotional unhealth, followed by actually reaching out to safe people and being vulnerable. It's been six years since my Crash + Burn, and I can say I actually have a group of close friends who know me well, and vice versa. Sometimes I have to pinch myself, and thank God for his faithfulness. Most people who don't know me well still think I'm a snob, or silently arrogant, or what have you, but I'm not-- I've grown to the point of realizing all people are broken and valuable, even the popular, vapid and status-concious ones. I think that started with being open to hearing people's stories, and that started with telling my own.

    But yeah, becoming healthy (or devoted to health consciousness, as I'd rather put it) isn't easy and usually requires pain and discomfort. Studying the Enneagram helps, joining a Smallgroup at my church helped me (but I'm sure therapy would be good too).
    Find my Enneagram writing here. Also, I'd love for you to take my six question Enneagram surveyEnneagram survey!✨

  6. #66
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    It is a contradiction.

    4 is an Enneatype that creates a personality who literally bathes in emotions, and has a love/hate relationship with them. A 4 is acutely aware of his emotional state and that necessitates a personality that favours Feeling.

    While any Enneatype combination is theoretically possible, it's my view that if you type as a 4 and are an INTJ, you need to consider a few things: (a) are you depressed (depressed 6s and 9s often mistype as 4s), and (b) if not, are you sure that you are not an ISFP (FiSeNiTe), or even an INFJ (NiFeTiSe)?

  7. #67
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    I've been typed this way before by others. Tried to make sense of it, but it ultimately didn't work.
    4w3 6w5 1w2 sx/sp ISFP

    RLOAX (don't do it)
    Melancholic Hufflepuff
    A lonely island where only what is permitted to move moves, becomes an ideal. Jung

    Kiss Kiss [johari] Bang Bang [nohari]

  8. #68
    Member Gizmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    Interesting, I relate a lot to the style component (in contrast with other INTJs IME) and the other bolded aspects...I could see myself with a rather strong 4 wing (5w4), though I doubt I'm a 4...I'm strongly involved with the arts through my interest in research, but I don't have such a strong personal/subjective involvement with them, with the object of my research.

    I do think I may know an INTJ 4 (an artist)...we resonate.
    I undoubtedly test INTJ, 4 and this is a very well defined description of my personal conduct... Thank you, as it has been very difficult to find any info on this conjointly. For a while I actually proclaimed 4w5, but I actually tested a 4 flat.

    I work 3 jobs, and they greatly differ being Road Work, Stripping, Uhaul dealing, and other various odds and ends. Writing is my passion, and dancing is my art. When I work I almost always have a head phone in, and I quite literally dance through the work day, and somehow still seem to be quite perfectionistic about the quality of my work. I've always been known for my unique sense of fashion, and I was recently described by a peer as aesthete. So from what I can tell you nailed it. Another thing I have noticed to be oddly different from most INTJs I've read about, is that I have an overwhelming need to be outside in fresh air, like its a mental neccesity. Bring in doors for to long gives me a sense of cabin fever, and that is typically when my behavior patterns become less than healthy, and when that happens I usually have to ride my bike, or drive the open rode to clear my head, and is typically done with great intensity.
    ~ Only your heart can poison your mind. ~
    Likes grey_beard liked this post

  9. #69
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    As an INTJ Enneagram 9, I believe that any MBTI type can be of any Enneagram type. Of course there are correlations, but the correlations are of personality traits, not intrinsic traits. Yet I am told by people who are very certain that there is no way an INTJ could be a type 9, so either the Enneagram or the MBTI type is wrong.

    MBTI and Jungian functions describe, more or less, "how you think". Enneagram instead describes "how you cope". It is not at all impossible for an INTJ to have type 4 coping mechanisms. It all makes sense, as long as you're consistent and know what to look for in terms of type. It's entirely possible, I believe, for an INTJ to have a very intuitive and analytical mind, yet be preoccupied with one's own personal identity and finding a soul mate out there in the world.

    The human mind is very plastic, very flexible. Typologies are good at classifying common patterns, but typology is not causality. You are your type because your patterns fit within the typology. Typology does not make you exhibit those patterns.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Rambling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    As an INTJ Enneagram 9, I believe that any MBTI type can be of any Enneagram type. Of course there are correlations, but the correlations are of personality traits, not intrinsic traits. Yet I am told by people who are very certain that there is no way an INTJ could be a type 9, so either the Enneagram or the MBTI type is wrong.

    MBTI and Jungian functions describe, more or less, "how you think". Enneagram instead describes "how you cope". It is not at all impossible for an INTJ to have type 4 coping mechanisms. It all makes sense, as long as you're consistent and know what to look for in terms of type. It's entirely possible, I believe, for an INTJ to have a very intuitive and analytical mind, yet be preoccupied with one's own personal identity and finding a soul mate out there in the world.

    The human mind is very plastic, very flexible. Typologies are good at classifying common patterns, but typology is not causality. You are your type because your patterns fit within the typology. Typology does not make you exhibit those patterns.
    Enneagram describes typical reactions to the breaking of the ego: so, depending on the experiences they have had a person could be any type of the enneagram.

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