[Type 4] Type 4s and relationship with parents/family

[Aquarelle]

^ I would agree with that.

I'm a 4 and don't have family issues at all - and I was always confused by that element of the e4 description. My family have been pretty understanding and accepting of me despite how different I am from them. All of the judging and undemining of my character has been by others.

Same here.

 

[Tiltyred]

I've got the stereotypical 4 family stuff.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

It's true. It irritates me that I thought this was normal for so long, that I just HAD to live with this unhappiness. I don't want to be one of those people who become crippled from something like that, I desire to take it and make it some thing positive, to at least help others with. But I feel like any time I bring my past up like that, I'm being self absorbed and it takes a lot for me NOT to delete everything I just wrote.

i worry about coming off too self involved, too. you're fine though.

i eventually turned my mindset around about my family by slowly realizing, that though they weren't always the ideal and picture perfect family, that they created me. and i like me. and i like the way i think. and i like my points of view. and decided that i wouldn't trade my experiences for anything else because who knows what i would have been like. i was built strong, but soft around the edges. independent. open minded. and have a deep well of caring. and ultimately, it's because of my family. and eventually i forgave them for not always being perfect themselves. we're all human. i came to understand my own parents upbringings and why they are the way they are and it became easier to understand where they were coming from.

This happened to me quite often. My younger sister is an ENFJ and she makes friends like crazy, so I'd hang on her sometimes. Most of my life I was in school by myself without any siblings, so it didn't always work. I consider myself a loner very much as well.

ugh, yes. my sister's an ESFJ. everyone always loved her.

there is a difference though in being alone and being lonely. and one thing i can say is though i'm often alone, i don't always feel lonely.

as a server, it makes me happy to see people who aren't afraid to dine alone. there are some who find their selves incapable of doing anything by their lonesome.

See, I relate a whole lot with this as well. I felt like the black sheep as well. Maybe it has to do with the whole E4 Type ISFP thing.
I had a lot more crap come from my mom and sister though. They have their values and beliefs and hold true to them very dearly. I questioned more just because I wanted to know or I'd argue a different perspective than my moms and it never went down well, lol.
Just the same, as I've gotten older I've become a lot more confident about speaking my mind around my family when before it was an iffy thing to do.

i'm so happy i've found other ISFP 4's.

yeah, my sister wasn't much of a questioner. she's a traditionalist. she refers to me as the hippy. but for an ESFJ, she sure can be surprising. we weren't raised in a church, and now that she's married to a christian man, she'll find herself outraged at the minister a lot. haha.

 

[LiLyLemon]

I am a 4w5 sp/so/sx and probably have all the typical abandonment/yearning issues that accompany the development of this enneagram type.

I empathised greatly reading Stepho's posts in this thread especially this:

I felt very abandoned by my family. Even grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins never wanted anything to do with our family. To make matters worse my family moved just about every 2 years so I never had any friends. I was so shy, had so much anxiety, panic, and depression. I didn't know how to relate to people my age. I've always been alone and people I come across IRL don't understand that.

To this day I have trouble interacting with people, it's not easy for me. I've been shown my whole life that I'm not important and that I'm invisible, so it's not so hard for me to believe that I have issues now. So, yes, my issues stem from my family. I've never hated them, I've always just wanted them to love me and give me the attention I felt I needed.

My situation, parents separated when I was a toddler and my mother then moved every year or so, all over the country, as she couldn't seem to settle anywhere. I did make friends thankfully, but had to get used to always being 'the new girl' and she didn't have any other kids so I had no siblings to keep me company. I saw my dad and his side of the family during school holidays, he comes from a large family so I yearned for (and envied) that real sense of a family when I was away from them, although didn't get on with my father that well per se as he is a rather cold INTJ.

My mother was diagnosed with ovarian cancer when I was 9, so I grew up with the permanent fear of losing her and I was very close to her. This while struggling with feeling like I didn't really belong in my dad's side of the family as I didn't spend much time with them due to geographical distance, and the loneliness of being an only child. It created an odd feeling of just not fitting in where ever I was and whoever I was with, thus the individualist mentality of the 4 type.

as a server, it makes me happy to see people who aren't afraid to dine alone. there are some who find their selves incapable of doing anything by their lonesome.

Agree here IndyAnnaJoan. I do a lot of things alone sometimes by choice, often not. But it's good to be able to do so.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I am a 4w5 sp/so/sx and probably have all the typical abandonment/yearning issues that accompany the development of this enneagram type.



My situation, parents separated when I was a toddler and my mother then moved every year or so, all over the country, as she couldn't seem to settle anywhere. I did make friends thankfully, but had to get used to always being 'the new girl' and she didn't have any other kids so I had no siblings to keep me company. I saw my dad and his side of the family during school holidays, he comes from a large family so I yearned for (and envied) that real sense of a family when I was away from them, although didn't get on with my father that well per se as he is a rather cold INTJ.

My mother was diagnosed with ovarian cancer when I was 9, so I grew up with the permanent fear of losing her and I was very close to her. This while struggling with feeling like I didn't really belong in my dad's side of the family as I didn't spend much time with them due to geographical distance, and the loneliness of being an only child. It created an odd feeling of just not fitting in where ever I was and whoever I was with, thus the individualist mentality of the 4 type.



Agree here IndyAnnaJoan. I do a lot of things alone sometimes by choice, often not. But it's good to be able to do so.

It's funny how similar a lot of our life stories are. Just like me and stepho, you too moved around a lot.

Also, similar to my life story that i didn't previously mentioned was the lack of family feeling. that's really interesting, lily.

my mother's side of the family, i have not seen since i was 5! and many family members on my father's side, i haven't met but once or twice. due to my father being in the military, we were always great great distances away from aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents. i don't know much of my family beyond my mother and father and sister. this lack of feeling as though i had a family really adds a lot to that alienated feeling. it's no wonder we suffered problems with our own identity and became type 4's. close knit family's really help a lot in a person establishing their own identity.

 

[Adasta]

I also moved around a lot, too...My Dad used to be in the Army.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I also moved around a lot, too...My Dad used to be in the Army.

do you feel as though this had a strong impact on you, knowingliy or unknowingly?

 

[Adasta]

do you feel as though this had a strong impact on you, knowingliy or unknowingly?

Yeah, I suppose it did. Moving around every 1-2 years means you become quite familiar with being "the new kid" and all of the troubles it entails. Conversely, I felt that I wasn't so attached to "place" as other kids my age were.

 

[CuriousFeeling]

Even though I grew up in a loving immediate family, I'd have to admit, living far away from my grandparents and extended family did effect me. Most kids I went to school with had family that lived locally, but I had to travel to see my relatives, and that meant I got to see them on holidays or special occasions. I was quite devastated when I lost both of my grandfathers to cancer, because I got close to both of them, even though they lived far away. Occasionally do I see other family members.

I am an only child too. I longed to have a sister, but I had to learn to entertain myself. I pretty much established the fact that I was different from others because I didn't have siblings like most children did. My parents invested in my future and wanted the best for me. I was kind of independent in keeping myself entertained though. Thing is, while I bonded well with others, I had an unusual amount of imagination, and preferred to do "make believe" games, and was very sensitive and reactive when people didn't understand me... or didn't take what I said seriously enough. I got picked on because I was reactive, and liked my world of imagination, and was more intellectually curious than my peers. I had a lot of acquaintances, but enduring friendships were rare. I was known as the sensitive nerd, and I was not very popular in the least bit. I suppose this is where the romantic yearning came into play... when I yearned for people to accept me for the unique traits I had.

 

[LiLyLemon]

my mother's side of the family, i have not seen since i was 5! and many family members on my father's side, i haven't met but once or twice. due to my father being in the military, we were always great great distances away from aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents. i don't know much of my family beyond my mother and father and sister. this lack of feeling as though i had a family really adds a lot to that alienated feeling. it's no wonder we suffered problems with our own identity and became type 4's. close knit family's really help a lot in a person establishing their own identity.

Definitely makes sense to me IndyAnnaJoan. I always have had great issues with identity and I think this is to do with not having a stable family environment with dependable figures. This traditionally would be the norm and something a lot of people take for granted, so they know exactly what their place is within the family, and consequently society as a whole. I suppose being intuitors and thus naturally introspective only furthers this distancing between the self and the world in general. Friends can always be a sounding board, and a way to guage your place and your relevance in any given situation...but if like many of us 4's seem to have, you move so often that these friendships are fleeting and transient, they only serve to reinforce the uncertainty of how exactly we fit in and indeed whether we do at all?

I'd have to admit, living far away from my grandparents and extended family did effect me. Most kids I went to school with had family that lived locally, but I had to travel to see my relatives, and that meant I got to see them on holidays or special occasions. I was quite devastated when I lost both of my grandfathers to cancer, because I got close to both of them, even though they lived far away. Occasionally do I see other family members.

I am an only child too. I longed to have a sister, but I had to learn to entertain myself. I pretty much established the fact that I was different from others because I didn't have siblings like most children did.

CuriousFeeling, ditto this. Especially the longing for a brother or sister. Btw is your user name from a PJ Harvey song?

 

[CuriousFeeling]

CuriousFeeling, ditto this. Especially the longing for a brother or sister. Btw is your user name from a PJ Harvey song?

If I didn't have a such a strong bond with my family, I think I'd be lost in life. My username isn't from a PJ Harvey song. It's actually based on the song and album A Curious Feeling by Tony Banks. I just figured the username worked well because it shows that I'm a blend of intellectualism (curiosity) and romanticism (feeling).

 

[Sunny Ghost]

all of these stories are very interesting. really puts type 4's into perspective. distanced families... lack of long term friendships... well it's no wonder we feel alienated, or alien like. :sad:

 

[CuriousFeeling]

all of these stories are very interesting. really puts type 4's into perspective. distanced families... lack of long term friendships... well it's no wonder we feel alienated, or alien like. :sad:

Yeah, it's a bit lonely, especially when you feel like a wandering gypsy going from one group of people to the next. But creative productivity is what helps keep the soul alive.

 

[Aquarelle]

Yeah, it's a bit lonely, especially when you feel like a wandering gypsy going from one group of people to the next. But creative productivity is what helps keep the soul alive.

Now THIS I can relate to. My relationship with my family is great, but I've always been on the periphery of any group of clique I've been associated with. That's good, in a way, especially as far as cliques go, but sometimes I tire of feeling like an outsider... an accepted outsider, but an outsider no less.... sigh....

 

[CuriousFeeling]

Now THIS I can relate to. My relationship with my family is great, but I've always been on the periphery of any group of clique I've been associated with. That's good, in a way, especially as far as cliques go, but sometimes I tire of feeling like an outsider... an accepted outsider, but an outsider no less.... sigh....

Yeah, when I was in high school, took me a while to find my group, and when I did, most of my friends were two years older than me, and then they graduated. In my own grade level, I felt a bit out of place... didn't quite find my niche, although people were nice to me. I never belonged to a clique, but I got to get to know a lot of people. Still, I had hoped that I had a group of friends I grew up with and maintained that friendship and closeness for a long time.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

Yeah, it's a bit lonely, especially when you feel like a wandering gypsy going from one group of people to the next. But creative productivity is what helps keep the soul alive.

i like that you used "wandering gypsy" here. definitely a relateable feeling. i always considered myself a nomad, anyways, due to the way i grew up--always moving, with no real "home." and wandering gypsy is a good way to describe how i am with social groups as well. i still continue to move from clique to clique.

 

[Oddity]

I used to think that the typical 4 family did not fit me. Later, though, I realized that I grew up as an only child in a single parent household. In a way, I was abandoned by one parent, and forced to grow up a bit faster than the other children as I became less of a dependent child and more of a cooperative near-spouse figure in my family. Having to be by myself a lot, my imagination became quite wild, though it's lessened a little over the years.

 

[brainheart]

I don't know. I think it's all perspective. I think we as fours are more intuitive to our differences, our separation from others. We may have the same environment growing up as other types, but we notice what we notice, while they notice what they notice. And we respond in our way, they respond in their way.

 

[brainheart]

General question I've got... do all type 4's experience issues with relationships with their parents/family? Could a type 4's individualism/imagination stem from another source other than parental issues, and more from their birth order (i.e. growing up as an only child, establishing the fact that they are different from most families that have more than 1 child, and having to keep themselves entertained)? I have a theory that a type 4 in a normal family life, might have been encouraged to be an individual, despite the fact that their family's core values might have been different from those that had to keep up with the latest trends, yet when they enter the real world, they feel misunderstood by those that don't share those values and don't have the same level of imagination or emotional sensitivity as they do. They yearn to have a sense of true family in the social sense... to find their core group of friends that they connect with. This type 4 might find it difficult to have a close connection with others because they are fiercely independent and true to their values, and do not make compromises. They are moody and temperamental if something doesn't work out to their ideals. They might find it better to do independent work, rather than do group work in school. If there is a death in this type of type 4's family, this would definitely set forth the traditional type 4 yearning. They will yearn for someone to fill the void for the person that is missing in their life.

My theory could be off, but I'd like to see what you guys think. I hypothesize that type 4 children might experience parental strain, but if they grow up in a loving environment that encourages their individualism, they might also have type 4 traits as well.

Just curious.

Okay, just read this. That for sure was a big part of my orientation growing up. We were very much encouraged to be individuals. I felt a connection with my siblings I didn't have with others. I made sense in my family, not in the rest of the world. But as I got older I began to feel separate from my family as well. Probably didn't help that my father saw strong feelings as a weakness, and here I am, a four...

 

[Pand0ra]

Growing up my family were not close at all. We get on well now, but I think the damage was done. We lived separate lives and I rarely emerged from my bedroom to be honest. I felt seriously alienated and misunderstood from a very young age so I guess I'd fit that (if slightly cliched) 4 description!