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  1. #11
    Junior Member LiLyLemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Type 5 INFPs - Some INFPs identify as Type 5s. These may be INFPs who test close to the F/T border. INFP type 5s may tend to:
    • Fall easily into being a detached observer, rather than a participant. While many INFPs have this quality (as it is common for all introverts), it is often more pronounced in type 5 INFPs.
    • Feel torn between engagement and withdrawing. Fi tends to concern itself with people and harmonizing values, while type 5s fear being overwhelmed by others. This can leads to type 5 INFPs feeling particularly torn when trying to begin or maintain relationships with others.
    • Like type 4 INFPs, come across as weird/crazy.
    • Appear to be more even keeled/flatter emotionally than other INFPs. The ability of Fi to regulate emotional state is used here to moderate emotional intensity. May have a hard time dealing with intense emotions when they arise (may attempt to flee into rationalizing and intellectualizing).
    Interesting info here. I have an INFP type 5 friend who is close to the T border. I notice it even more so as I score very highly on the feeling function and can see his more logical/rational side that you might not expect from a typical INFP. If I exhibit intense emotion, which I often doing being a moody 4 lol, he immediately shuts down or changes subject in an attempt to withdraw from dealing with it. It is different though to my ex who is an INTP type 5 who would behave similarly, but here because he wouldn't know HOW to deal with the emotion.

    The dichotomy between engagement and withdrawing is intriguing as well as frustrating, because as an INFJ I can usually read people well, but this behaviour makes INFP type 5's all the more hard to read. My best friend is also an INFP but I find her very different to my male INFP friend, I don't know her enneagram type but I expect definitely not a 5.

  2. #12
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    I am actively trying to be an 8 right now. It seems to be good for me. I seem to be making it work also, to the point I no longer identify with the 5 type description, although that was how I was only a month ago!

    I like this system better than the MBT thing, because it recommends that you change in order to grow. Instead of being invisible, I should be assertive. That is very constructive advice. I love it.
    The MBTI types me as an INFP, however, SOCIONICS calls me an Logical Intuitive Extram (called an ENTj in our terms.)

  3. #13
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    i think i might be an ISFP type 5. i've typed as INTP and some others (who know me in person) frequently think i'm an IxTP.

  4. #14
    brainheart
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    I'm an INFP 5w4. I've vacillated a lot between 4w5 and 5w4, but I'm realizing the 5w4 makes a lot more sense. This week is an excellent example: I found myself really intensely withdrawing into myself, obsessing about typology, researching the hell out of it. Kept trying to figure out, why am I doing this? Finally realized (after pinpointed what I was doing enneagram-wise, lower levels of average e5) that it was because I was experiencing anxiety about a potential career move. I keep a daily mood chart. Not on one single day did I mark that I had any anxiety. I 'seemed' fine. It wasn't until I analyzed the situation, stepped back and observed what was going on that I realized what I was feeling. Once I realized what was going on, I felt relieved, ready to return to my regular life.

    Doesn't sound all that 'feely' does it? My Fi is very much a rational function.

  5. #15
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    1. A preference for thought over action
    Yes. I'd much rather ponder, analyze, observe, learn by watching/learn by reading than to *complete a task*.

    2. Hoarding time and space
    Yes. My home is my haven. And my space at work is a haven. My personal space, in general, is valuable to me. I have sometimes felt that there is a 2 or 3 foot invisible bubble around me. If I don't know you well, I like you to stay just on the outside of that bubble. And, in return, I will always be respectful of your space as well. I will stand at the door of your office and speak to you until I am invited in. I will not just walk in because *I have something to talk about*. Maybe you don't want me in there right now. I'm always aware of this possibility and I like others to be aware of it as well (again, mainly people who I'm fairly unfamiliar with).

    3. Withdrawing and remaining invisible; purposefully not participating
    Yes. I've never fully understood this part of myself. It's the iconoclastic nature. Always wanting to do things a different way, a creative way, an original way. As for withdrawing and remaining invisible, it's mainly if I've recently had a lot of interaction. At the end of a work day, at the end of the work week (especially this) or even a short burst of interaction that was intense. Like I had a 1-hour meeting the other day where I had to meet 4 new people - personal questions, rapid-fire dialogue, keep the conversation going, make eye contact, be engaging, etc. After that hour, I needed about 2 hours alone in my office to recover. I withdrew and made myself invisible. If anyone had come in to my office during those 2 hours, I would have been pleasant, but also wanting the interaction to be very short and to-the-point. Tell me what you need, I'll make it happen, and then I want you to leave again. Nice and pleasant, but "get to the point, please". In terms of purposefully not participating - yeah, it's kind of wierd sometimes. A basketball game with colleagues or something like that - I'm usually up for fun stuff like that. But, if it's some formality thing that is kind of being pushed upon me, I like to not show up - it's a way of saying, "I'm my own person. I'm a team player, but if pushed hard enough, I will exert my individualism. I won't conform just because you say I have to conform. And if you don't believe me, just watch." Examples might be "you HAVE to come to this party!" "No I don't." "Yes, yes you do!" When it comes time for the party to start, I'm in a different city and I'm not answering when you call. And if you show up at my door, aint nobody home. If it wasn't clear to you that I was serious about not going to the party, it will be by the end of the night. If I tell you no, respect what I'm telling you. Don't push me.

    Stuff at work too. Like, "You should go to lunch at 12pm cuz that's what time everyone else goes." "Yeah, well, I like to go to lunch when I'm hungry. That's what lunch is for. I think I'll go at 1:37 today. Come knock on my office door at 1:45 and listen to the crickets. That's all you'll hear cuz I'll be at lunch." LOL. Sounds horrible, but I really, really hate "rules" being enforced upon me. Sometimes they are necessary and I've been in the military - I know how to bow down, give in, and conform. But, if you're just projecting your own need for structure on to me, it's not going to happen. What's crazy about all this is that if nobody pushes me or tries to make me conform, I will usually be a great team player without thinking twice about it. It's only when people try to push and coerce and force. That's when it gets kind of ugly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    A few random tidbits/stories about 5s from the conference: 5s want to avoid depending on anyone else, and want to master things themselves. They often will avoid asking for help if at all possible. One 5 told a story about testing to make sure he could flip his kayak upright after being upside down. He warned his girlfriend to give him some time to see if he could get it. He flailed around for a good while, barely being able to get up far enough to snatch a breath before going back under the water. Eventually his girlfriend dove in and helped him right himself. His immediate response was to snarl "I TOLD you not to help!!!"
    Yes. I live my life extremely independently. I'm so used to trying things out on my own, testing things out on my own, learning and exploring on my own, moving furniture on my own, carrying all the groceries in on my own, everything on my own. In the very rare instance that something really goes wrong, then obviously I need the help of another person (broken down on the side of the road, etc. - even then, I'm just going to start trying to get out of the situation on my own, but I'll welcome help). So, when someone says something to me like, "Oh, what would you have done if I wasn't here to save you?" It really irks me because I know full well that I'd be fine if they weren't there. Like always, I would have improvised and found a solution. And I really dislike asking for people's help because then I feel indebted to them. I've had other INxP's tell me the same thing. I'd much rather do it on my own and then I don't feel like there is an "expectation" on my shoulders to return some sort of favor to you. If I see you in need of help, I'll definitely be there! Not a problem at all - I'll help out willingly. But, when there's the "you owe me one" type of thing - it sucks cuz you never know when they're going to want you to jump. They might come over at 7am on a Saturday morning and be like, "dude, i'm moving today and I need another body. Remember that time you dropped your keys on the ground and I picked them up for you?" HUH?

    5s fear being drained, so avoid ongoing commitments when possible. When they do commit, they commit deeply. Type 5s are afraid to appear incompetent, so tend to specialize in specific areas of interest where they can attain mastery.
    Yes and yes. I like to keep my schedule as "open" as possible. When it's open, I know I can do whatever I feel like doing "at that moment". When something is scheduled, then I know I'll be thinking about all the other things I'd like to be doing - but I'm stuck doing the scheduled thing instead. Like if it's 10am and a co-worker says, "a few of us should go out tonight". That's not appealing to me cuz I know I have stuff to do tonight and I usually like to go home and relax after work anyways. But, if it's 5pm, and we're walking out the door and walking to our cars, I might say, "I feel like a really good dinner tonight. Wanna go?" It's what sounds fun RIGHT NOW! 7 hours ago it might not have sounded fun. But, it does now! And if they don't want to go, no big deal. Back to plan A - go home and relax. But, if they do, then it'll be fun.

    And about committing deeply, yeah, it goes for relationships or for anything. It's fairly rare for me to hang out with a group, so when I do go with them, I really look forward to it. I'm really, really making myself available and going to put my all into the occasion. I'm going to gear up for it and put all my introvert energry into it.

    And about "mastering things" - absolutely true. I really want to be the best at whatever I set out to do. I don't want to be mediocre. Any job or career or relationship (or anything) in which I am only capable of being "kind of good" or "so so" or "good enough", I end up not liking and even resenting. I want to put my all into it and become very, very competent - even excellent - at it. If I can't be excellent at it, then I don't really want to invest my time and energy into it long-term. It would really, really suck to me to be in a career for 10 or 15 years and to know that there is still someone better than me or more competent than me. If, after 10 years, I am not one of the best in my field, I would feel that I somehow fell short or didn't measure up. In a relationship - if I was 5 years into it and I heard her say to her girlfriend or her family, "Well, we're doing OK. We're still working on A, B, and C and he doesn't really do that well in areas X, Y, and Z" - that would really sting to hear something like that. I would feel like I was failing in the relationship. I would feel like, "Here we are 5 years into it, and I'm still not making her happy. She still has gripes and complaints. Hard as I've tried, I'm obviously not very competent in this relationship."

    It's the basic philosophy of - Do everything to the best of your ability - become good and become competent - if you're not going to put your "all" into it, why even bother in the first place?

    Fives tend to exist in their heads, at a remove, and get a lot of mileage out of a little direct interaction or experience. One type 5 told a story about hanging out with a friend one day; they had a great time and she had enjoyed herself. The next day, her friend called her to hang out more, and the 5 felt put out. Everything had been fine, why mess it up with more interaction now? The type 5 was still getting enjoyment from the previous interaction and would be fine with processing that for a while.
    Yes. One outing with friends or even one good, hearty conversation with a colleague and I'm good for days. I just don't require a whole lot of interaction.

    The posts in this thread really resonate!
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Yes. I'd much rather ponder, analyze, observe, learn by watching/learn by reading than to *complete a task*.


    Yes. My home is my haven. And my space at work is a haven. My personal space, in general, is valuable to me. I have sometimes felt that there is a 2 or 3 foot invisible bubble around me. If I don't know you well, I like you to stay just on the outside of that bubble. And, in return, I will always be respectful of your space as well. I will stand at the door of your office and speak to you until I am invited in. I will not just walk in because *I have something to talk about*. Maybe you don't want me in there right now. I'm always aware of this possibility and I like others to be aware of it as well (again, mainly people who I'm fairly unfamiliar with).


    Yes. I've never fully understood this part of myself. It's the iconoclastic nature. Always wanting to do things a different way, a creative way, an original way. As for withdrawing and remaining invisible, it's mainly if I've recently had a lot of interaction. At the end of a work day, at the end of the work week (especially this) or even a short burst of interaction that was intense. Like I had a 1-hour meeting the other day where I had to meet 4 new people - personal questions, rapid-fire dialogue, keep the conversation going, make eye contact, be engaging, etc. After that hour, I needed about 2 hours alone in my office to recover. I withdrew and made myself invisible. If anyone had come in to my office during those 2 hours, I would have been pleasant, but also wanting the interaction to be very short and to-the-point. Tell me what you need, I'll make it happen, and then I want you to leave again. Nice and pleasant, but "get to the point, please". In terms of purposefully not participating - yeah, it's kind of wierd sometimes. A basketball game with colleagues or something like that - I'm usually up for fun stuff like that. But, if it's some formality thing that is kind of being pushed upon me, I like to not show up - it's a way of saying, "I'm my own person. I'm a team player, but if pushed hard enough, I will exert my individualism. I won't conform just because you say I have to conform. And if you don't believe me, just watch." Examples might be "you HAVE to come to this party!" "No I don't." "Yes, yes you do!" When it comes time for the party to start, I'm in a different city and I'm not answering when you call. And if you show up at my door, aint nobody home. If it wasn't clear to you that I was serious about not going to the party, it will be by the end of the night. If I tell you no, respect what I'm telling you. Don't push me.

    Stuff at work too. Like, "You should go to lunch at 12pm cuz that's what time everyone else goes." "Yeah, well, I like to go to lunch when I'm hungry. That's what lunch is for. I think I'll go at 1:37 today. Come knock on my office door at 1:45 and listen to the crickets. That's all you'll hear cuz I'll be at lunch." LOL. Sounds horrible, but I really, really hate "rules" being enforced upon me. Sometimes they are necessary and I've been in the military - I know how to bow down, give in, and conform. But, if you're just projecting your own need for structure on to me, it's not going to happen. What's crazy about all this is that if nobody pushes me or tries to make me conform, I will usually be a great team player without thinking twice about it. It's only when people try to push and coerce and force. That's when it gets kind of ugly.



    Yes. I live my life extremely independently. I'm so used to trying things out on my own, testing things out on my own, learning and exploring on my own, moving furniture on my own, carrying all the groceries in on my own, everything on my own. In the very rare instance that something really goes wrong, then obviously I need the help of another person (broken down on the side of the road, etc. - even then, I'm just going to start trying to get out of the situation on my own, but I'll welcome help). So, when someone says something to me like, "Oh, what would you have done if I wasn't here to save you?" It really irks me because I know full well that I'd be fine if they weren't there. Like always, I would have improvised and found a solution. And I really dislike asking for people's help because then I feel indebted to them. I've had other INxP's tell me the same thing. I'd much rather do it on my own and then I don't feel like there is an "expectation" on my shoulders to return some sort of favor to you. If I see you in need of help, I'll definitely be there! Not a problem at all - I'll help out willingly. But, when there's the "you owe me one" type of thing - it sucks cuz you never know when they're going to want you to jump. They might come over at 7am on a Saturday morning and be like, "dude, i'm moving today and I need another body. Remember that time you dropped your keys on the ground and I picked them up for you?" HUH?



    Yes and yes. I like to keep my schedule as "open" as possible. When it's open, I know I can do whatever I feel like doing "at that moment". When something is scheduled, then I know I'll be thinking about all the other things I'd like to be doing - but I'm stuck doing the scheduled thing instead. Like if it's 10am and a co-worker says, "a few of us should go out tonight". That's not appealing to me cuz I know I have stuff to do tonight and I usually like to go home and relax after work anyways. But, if it's 5pm, and we're walking out the door and walking to our cars, I might say, "I feel like a really good dinner tonight. Wanna go?" It's what sounds fun RIGHT NOW! 7 hours ago it might not have sounded fun. But, it does now! And if they don't want to go, no big deal. Back to plan A - go home and relax. But, if they do, then it'll be fun.

    And about committing deeply, yeah, it goes for relationships or for anything. It's fairly rare for me to hang out with a group, so when I do go with them, I really look forward to it. I'm really, really making myself available and going to put my all into the occasion. I'm going to gear up for it and put all my introvert energry into it.

    And about "mastering things" - absolutely true. I really want to be the best at whatever I set out to do. I don't want to be mediocre. Any job or career or relationship (or anything) in which I am only capable of being "kind of good" or "so so" or "good enough", I end up not liking and even resenting. I want to put my all into it and become very, very competent - even excellent - at it. If I can't be excellent at it, then I don't really want to invest my time and energy into it long-term. It would really, really suck to me to be in a career for 10 or 15 years and to know that there is still someone better than me or more competent than me. If, after 10 years, I am not one of the best in my field, I would feel that I somehow fell short or didn't measure up. In a relationship - if I was 5 years into it and I heard her say to her girlfriend or her family, "Well, we're doing OK. We're still working on A, B, and C and he doesn't really do that well in areas X, Y, and Z - I would feel like I was failing in the relationship. I would feel like, "Here we are 5 years into, and I'm still not making her happy. She still has gripes and complaints. Hard as I've tried, I'm obviously not very competent in this relationship.



    Yes. One outing with friends or even one good, hearty conversation with a colleague and I'm good for days. I just don't require a whole lot of interaction.

    The posts in this thread really resonate!

    INTPness *chuckles* .... GET OUT OF MY HEAD! :eek:

    I relate to your post very much, as for good conversation, I could totally get lost in it, especially when it's a in depth conversation and ideas can be tossed back and forth, the world sort of melts.. but that's probably an sx-first thing.

  7. #17
    brainheart
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    INTPness, totally with you on everything, except:

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    What's crazy about all this is that if nobody pushes me or tries to make me conform, I will usually be a great team player without thinking twice about it.

    My husband and I have a joke. He always says to me, whenever it's appropriate, "You are so not a team player." It's true. That word makes me break out in a rash and hyperventilate. Doesn't mean I don't care; doesn't mean I don't want things to work out, just means I will do it the way I deem appropriate. I can't even be on the same flight with my mom and sisters when we go on a vacation. I'll meet up with you later, I tell them. Gives me time to prepare for a few days of socializing.

  8. #18
    Junior Member grey bottom socks's Avatar
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    I am a borderline INXP, and 95% of the above posts resonate with me too. More so a 5w4 then any other enneagram type. I'm pretty self-contained and self-reliant because that's how I was raised and how I dealt with things growing up. I actually have a problem asking for help, possibly due to stubbornness, pride, and not wanting to seem incompetent.

    I believe I posted on some other forum that I have a thick layer of INTP hide covering my spongy, fragile INFP innards.

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