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Thread: Fi and 3

  1. #1
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Default Fi and 3

    hey guys. tl;dr in bold

    ok first of all thanks to petra pan for knowing i was a 3 all along (at least in my trifix ha ha) and nudging me patiently until i finally agreed

    but what i want to talk about is decision-making, and possibly in particular for Fi dom/aux 3s, because i often find my Fi-ish desires at odds with my 3-ish desires. and being that i'm a rather indecisive P already, it just makes everything a bit more tricky! and even if i'm not a 3, this problem is 3 enough that i still would really like to approach it in that way.

    what i mean is that i often find my personal desire to have meaning/goodness (Fi) up against the desire to have what is the biggest, the best, the most admirable, and what others would affirm (3).

    take my car, for example. it's a fairly low-price reliable small but nice sedan. i usually love it, because it's fun to drive (lightweight and stick shift!), well-suited to my needs, a color that i like, and has been with me through a lot! but occasionally i feel a bit embarrassed that it's not a nicer, fancier, more expensive car. especially when i'm hanging around snobby people. like my family.

    and when it comes to making decisions, i often find these two sorts of desires pitted against one another: do i go for meaning, or what is The Best? because honestly, when i go for meaning, Fi knows it's "right", but i feel regret that i didn't get The Best. i feel like i'm letting myself down and i'm letting others down, because i could have done better. but when i go for The Best, Fi is pissy. i'm looking at a piece of jewelry - Fi says i really like it smaller; 3 says it's more impressive if it's bigger. your friends will like it more. your bff jill will like it more and i really trust her judgment (though i think she is a 3 too.) your parents will like it more. and it's the exact same thing just bigger anyway, there's no reason not to like it. people will take you more seriously and know you're wealthy and impressive. and it sounds kind of stupid to write it, but i do want people to think/know this.

    and yeah, i know we're told from day 1 to go with our hearts because money will never make us happy. but my parents both have public service jobs (and technically we are upper class, but still) - they keep telling me that from their experience they genuinely believe it's better to just be a good person in a non-public job (or like a govt job) than to limit myself to a lower salary job even though it's idealistic, and have to struggle with financial issues. and note that they're both idealists (not the NF kind) - both work purely for human betterment. and they're are plagued by financial headaches.

    so anyway. Fi vs 3. how the hell does one go about reconciling this?

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    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    I know one person I would say is a 3, and based on her life, I would say that it doesn't necessarily have to be all or nothing either way. She is super successful in business and management and made a lot of money and I think it gives her a huge satisfaction to have achieved what she has and that others respect and value this. Now that she's achieved all of that, the money and success actually gives her a lot of freedom in her older age to do a lot of Fi-type things that she wouldn't maybe have been able to do otherwise without the financial power and personal freedom and the contacts she's made and influence that she has. For example, she gives free consultation and teaching to poor people without a business background to learn how to create their own start-ups. She's teaching at her old university and is now getting more into politics. So you could maybe have both in the same way as her just over a longer time frame.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    what i mean is that i often find my personal desire to have meaning/goodness (Fi) up against the desire to have what is the biggest, the best, the most admirable, and what others would affirm (3).
    The former trumps the latter. Realize that the latter is an unhealthy trait of 3 (as most descriptive traits of Enneagram types are--that's the point of the system), and act accordingly.

    That said, there's a fine line between "going with your heart" and "being impractical." In terms of a job, this plays out in pursuing what you know that you want in a healthy way, or not having enough money to live in a dead-end job that you love otherwise.

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    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    hey guys. tl;dr in bold

    ok first of all thanks to petra pan for knowing i was a 3 all along (at least in my trifix ha ha) and nudging me patiently until i finally agreed
    hahaha. welcome to The Three Club!!!


    no seriously, you are i guess at least 7th or something like that person from this forum that i retyped as 3 and was right.
    but what i want to talk about is decision-making, and possibly in particular for Fi dom/aux 3s, because i often find my Fi-ish desires at odds with my 3-ish desires. and being that i'm a rather indecisive P already, it just makes everything a bit more tricky! and even if i'm not a 3, this problem is 3 enough that i still would really like to approach it in that way.

    what i mean is that i often find my personal desire to have meaning/goodness (Fi) up against the desire to have what is the biggest, the best, the most admirable, and what others would affirm (3).

    take my car, for example. it's a fairly low-price reliable small but nice sedan. i usually love it, because it's fun to drive (lightweight and stick shift!), well-suited to my needs, a color that i like, and has been with me through a lot! but occasionally i feel a bit embarrassed that it's not a nicer, fancier, more expensive car. especially when i'm hanging around snobby people. like my family.

    and when it comes to making decisions, i often find these two sorts of desires pitted against one another: do i go for meaning, or what is The Best? because honestly, when i go for meaning, Fi knows it's "right", but i feel regret that i didn't get The Best. i feel like i'm letting myself down and i'm letting others down, because i could have done better. but when i go for The Best, Fi is pissy. i'm looking at a piece of jewelry - Fi says i really like it smaller; 3 says it's more impressive if it's bigger. your friends will like it more. your bff jill will like it more and i really trust her judgment (though i think she is a 3 too.) your parents will like it more. and it's the exact same thing just bigger anyway, there's no reason not to like it. people will take you more seriously and know you're wealthy and impressive. and it sounds kind of stupid to write it, but i do want people to think/know this.

    and yeah, i know we're told from day 1 to go with our hearts because money will never make us happy. but my parents both have public service jobs (and technically we are upper class, but still) - they keep telling me that from their experience they genuinely believe it's better to just be a good person in a non-public job (or like a govt job) than to limit myself to a lower salary job even though it's idealistic, and have to struggle with financial issues. and note that they're both idealists (not the NF kind) - both work purely for human betterment. and they're are plagued by financial headaches.

    so anyway. Fi vs 3. how the hell does one go about reconciling this?
    Relate completely! probably my biggest problem ever.
    And...what can i say, ENFP and 3 is one of the toughest combinations for a 3, because Fi and 3 are ... well enemies.

    this is why i look at enneagram as defense system, because you know (do you?) that your 3 is something that's not as real you as your enfp? i do.

    i think it's great to figure this while you're young, some people devote their lives to pursue achievement after achievement, just to fit in, just to be what other people want you to be.
    it's also on many levels very unconscious motivation, it takes years to become aware what's 3 doing to you (i noticed this myself but also talking with one "coach" in the mbti+enneagrma business who is ENFP and 3), takes a long to realize how many things 3 is doing out of fear of failure...

    my sister is ESTJ and 3, it's easier combination, but i watch it in her all the time too, wanting to be everything for everybody.


    i personally started to think that noooo 3 will enjoy being on "the bottom" in career, no matter does he/she loves his career. it's not idealistic more realistic stance.

    even that coach 3 i know .. she's very successful, and doubt she'd be able to put up with not being successful


    with me, it's constant battle between what i want and where can i be The Best.


    I am trying to take "what i want" path, but so many times i just want to be the best.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    also, i wasnt even aware until recently how much I want to be The Best.. it was bc my life situation;
    tbh, i was always The Best without trying. until college. so i wasnt aware how much it'd bother me if i couldnt be.

    i was bad at things that i openely acknowledged as not in my interest, so it's not like i was failing them, which kept my self-image up.

    And in college, since my college is very difficult, i didnt try to be top student at all, i knew it's too much effort, so i just kept mediocre, it also didnt mean in my head "I am not the best" because i knew i could be if i want to.

    so all that, even aparent "failures" from someone who is looking it from a side, looks like i dont want to be the best. recent yrs i dont look ambitious at all (okay, i am also not much bc i was unmotivated in my enviorment)

    but not until i felt like i want to be the best but i cant, did i realize that it is important to me more than i thought before.

    it's also about possibility of being that, not always about being it.



    think it's good thing to ask yourself all the time: what do *I* REALLY want? and try to put aside approval of others.

    there needs to be a lot of reflecting to become a healthy 3

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    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbah
    I know one person I would say is a 3, and based on her life, I would say that it doesn't necessarily have to be all or nothing either way.
    that's really cool. yeah, i think that's kind of ideally what i would like to do - do really well in the occupational world and then do lots of Fi stuff. and be a Fi-ish person while doing well. i think the people who impress me the most are those who are in crazy environments like law and business, etc., and they're still people-oriented and fun and loving. and they have enough money to do what they want!

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna
    The former trumps the latter. Realize that the latter is an unhealthy trait of 3 (as most descriptive traits of Enneagram types are--that's the point of the system), and act accordingly.
    true

    i just wish 3 stuff wouldn't keep me up at night. well okay, that's a lie, i sleep like a rock, but that it wouldn't plague me with self-doubt after i've made a decision.

    i also wish i knew why i was a 3. why it matters so much to me. because logically it really shouldn't, but... maybe it had to do with thriving on being the best all the time when i was little, i dunno.

    Quote Originally Posted by Petra Pan View Post
    also, i wasnt even aware until recently how much I want to be The Best.. it was bc my life situation;
    tbh, i was always The Best without trying. until college. so i wasnt aware how much it'd bother me if i couldnt be.

    i was bad at things that i openely acknowledged as not in my interest, so it's not like i was failing them, which kept my self-image up.
    yeah! same for me. i was always the top student until i hit 12th grade, at which point i completely rebelled and mostly stopped going to class lol.

    i think college mellowed me out in some ways - academically mostly - but socially it made me more snobby.... lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Petra Pan
    welcome to The Three Club!!!


    think it's good thing to ask yourself all the time: what do *I* REALLY want? and try to put aside approval of others.

    there needs to be a lot of reflecting to become a healthy 3
    yeah. i think that on a lot of levels i realize that those are unhealthy 3 thoughts, but sometimes it hits me that if i didn't think like that, i wouldn't be nearly as successful as i've been. which sounds a bit like self-deception, but i think it's a valid point. it's funny, to look at my resume, it looks good - because i don't really feel like i've done that well! though i do like to reflect on certain stuff - awards, high-ranking positions, etc - that i've had. haha.

    i guess what i'm trying to figure out is how to channel 3 in a healthy way that doesn't smush Fi.

    i think it was easier when i was younger because it's easy to please adults, frankly. it really doesn't take much. and you can kind of do what you want, while adults take care of the practical stuff. now... 3 and Fi stuff are pitted against one another!

    And...what can i say, ENFP and 3 is one of the toughest combinations for a 3, because Fi and 3 are ... well enemies.

    this is why i look at enneagram as defense system, because you know (do you?) that your 3 is something that's not as real you as your enfp? i do.

    i think it's great to figure this while you're young, some people devote their lives to pursue achievement after achievement, just to fit in, just to be what other people want you to be.
    it's also on many levels very unconscious motivation, it takes years to become aware what's 3 doing to you (i noticed this myself but also talking with one "coach" in the mbti+enneagrma business who is ENFP and 3), takes a long to realize how many things 3 is doing out of fear of failure...

    my sister is ESTJ and 3, it's easier combination, but i watch it in her all the time too, wanting to be everything for everybody.
    a defense system. yeah, i really like that. and right, because on a moment-to-moment basis, i am way more ENFP than 3. and it really is a bizarre combination because Ne says fuck everything, let's have fun; Fi says seek what is true to yourself and meaningful; but then 3 is what makes me do crazy stuff like want to go to top-tier schools even though they aren't a good fit, seek leadership positions, desire money, desire status.

    i mean i really thought i was a 7 for the longest time, but i think that's just Ne. well and i'm pretty sure my trifix (haha funny how it's quite obvious now that i know my primary type) is 3w4/7w6/9w1. i'm not nearly as competitive or able to put aside my emotions as most of the 3 descriptions sound, but at a deep level the 3 stuff is my biggest hangup.

    i guess overall i just need to trust Fi more.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Balance is tough, but I think that's the answer to almost everything. Think about the importance of indulging either Fi or 3. If being impressive matters clearly, then go with being impressive. Like getting expensive clothes for an interview or a important meeting. If it doesn't matter as clearly, like a piece of jewelry go with your Fi. If it's something big like a car, perhaps indulge your 3 and make it happy. And get smaller things to indulge your Fi. You don't have to make it either 1 or 2 all the time. Don't be too hard on yourself. Appearance matters, money matters, society and other people matter. But not all the time and not for everyone so pick your fights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    Balance is tough, but I think that's the answer to almost everything. Think about the importance of indulging either Fi or 3. If being impressive matters clearly, then go with being impressive. Like getting expensive clothes for an interview or a important meeting. If it doesn't matter as clearly, like a piece of jewelry go with your Fi. If it's something big like a car, perhaps indulge your 3 and make it happy. And get smaller things to indulge your Fi. You don't have to make it either 1 or 2 all the time. Don't be too hard on yourself. Appearance matters, money matters, society and other people matter. But not all the time and not for everyone so pick your fights.
    this seems like a wise answer.

    i don't want to treat 3 like the enemy, because like any good NFP, i believe that flaws are to be embraced and told it's okay. but seriously, i don't think "hating" my 3 impulses is a good idea either. getting to the bottom of why they exist and how to manage them and come to peace with them seems wiser.

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    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    this seems like a wise answer.

    i don't want to treat 3 like the enemy, because like any good NFP, i believe that flaws are to be embraced and told it's okay. but seriously, i don't think "hating" my 3 impulses is a good idea either. getting to the bottom of why they exist and how to manage them and come to peace with them seems wiser.
    ha ha wise wise.

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    Senior Member Kenneth Almighty's Avatar
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    Last time I took the ennegram I came up as 3w7, so now I'm wondering...

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