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  1. #1
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Default INTP Fours? (and other oddities...)

    I still wonder if there are any INTP 4s around who are pretty sure about the T preference.

    I show the most consistent pattern of being INTP. I do seem to have pretty high Fi, but Ti always clearly wins.

    If I had to choose, I would say that I am 5w4, but I fear that I am not giving the 4 enough attention simply because of my thinking preference.

    Upon closer inspection, I agree on the 5 and 4 profiles just about evenly, and this short description just about pins me down:

    "Type 4 World View: Something's missing. Others have it. I'm different from them because I don't.
    Basic Desire: to understand self
    Basic Fear: of being defective"

    I am also hopelessly fascinated with the individual, the one that breaks the pattern, the strange and different, etc. (and who else would start such a thread...)

    I am the alien watching down on earth, analyzing its ways...

    But there are some inconsistencies:

    Fours supposedly look deep into some sort of "darkness within." I see no dark, just weaknesses to endlessly improve upon.

    Also about those weaknesses, I do not let them hide my strengths. I still enjoy my strengths well. Are fours not allowed to see themselves as awesome?

    Fours are also not supposed to rationalize their states, but I seem to do little more than rationalize them. Does the fact that an INTP rationalizes the bits out of everything mean they cannot be a four?


    Is INTP 4 a contradiction in terms? Are there any combinations of types and enneagram that are truly contradictions? I wish to investigate the possible contradictions in these oddities.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    There are many weird combinations, like ENFP 1 for example...

    I have a friend who is INTP and 4. He is very NT, but he wants to be special and unique like 4s do, he is also often a drama queen, but for example I am NF and we viewt hings much differently, he considers most NF things unimportant and naive. He wants to be considered competent and intelligent, which is secondary to most NFs, who care more about are they good people and stuff like that. While watching movie about G.Klimt I got impression he could have been INTP 4 too

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    I think the whole issue with the apparent contradiction in either INTPs being a 4 and INFPs being a 5 can most likely be traced back to whatever balance that might exist in each individual's F/T slot - if we're sticking with MBTI terms. Certainly there is some sort of base personality that exists, but other cognitive functions can develop over time through certain life experiences or challenges that exercise a contradictory function.

    So basically what I'm trying to say is this: I wouldn't worry too much about apparent contradictions in either functions or comparing different personality type systems, because it basically means to me that you've done things in your life you weren't comfortable with but learned to do well anyway.

    I was talking about this with a group of people in ventrilo and it seems to me that people get too caught up in their personality type when really, learning about your dominant or prevalent cognitive functions is much more helpful in first understanding yourself and from there being better able to derive your MBTI type.

    Samvega gave me a link to this test that I think does a pretty damn good job of assessing your cognitive process profile. I'm sure other threads have posted it, but I'll post it here again.

    Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes

  4. #4
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I don'tw anna cause a shit storm again but...

    Ti-doms have Fi in the devil position. Apparently that means that you can be tempted into using it but you have trouble using it in a balanced way, you tend to go overboard in it, when you do engage in it.

    For me, for instance, it's Se. I *love* good food, physical touches, the feeling of soft fabric on my skin, dancing, sex..etc
    However, I also suck at finding things and focusing on what's in front of me. So I do have a relative good use of it in some places....and rather bad one in others. Most importantly...I abuse it when I'm stressed. I'm likely to go shopping like mad, engage in pure physical stimulation in order to forget my responsibilities and take away my anxiety etc....

    Perhaps your use of Fi is somewhat the same, which then ties into the 4 enneagram?
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  5. #5
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone who responded so far..

    Quote Originally Posted by Chloé View Post
    There are many weird combinations, like ENFP 1 for example...
    I have a friend who is INTP and 4. He is very NT, but he wants to be special and unique like 4s do, he is also often a drama queen, but for example I am NF and we view things much differently, he considers most NF things unimportant and naive. He wants to be considered competent and intelligent, which is secondary to most NFs, who care more about are they good people and stuff like that.
    Interesting, it would be cool to hear more about being ENFP 1.
    LOL @ the drama queen INTP 4. That's an even more unusual combination there.
    Yes, it is key to know that my desire to be competent pretty much takes over everything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by SecondBest View Post
    I think the whole issue with the apparent contradiction in either INTPs being a 4 and INFPs being a 5 can most likely be traced back to whatever balance that might exist in each individual's F/T slot - if we're sticking with MBTI terms...

    So basically what I'm trying to say is this: I wouldn't worry too much about apparent contradictions in either functions or comparing different personality type systems, because it basically means to me that you've done things in your life you weren't comfortable with but learned to do well anyway.

    ...learning about your dominant or prevalent cognitive functions is much more helpful in first understanding yourself and from there being better able to derive your MBTI type.

    Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes
    In sticking to MBTI terms, there actually isn't really a great balance in T and F. I tend to test about 65/35, respectively. Though maybe I don't understand what is meant by 'balance.'

    It is interesting that you say it might be due to learning things that weren't comfortable. I challenge myself with things that I am not good at everyday, but I'd need to see what specifically is going on there.

    Understanding cognitive processes is very important, but as I said in the OP, I already know that I'm a Ti-dominant, as to make this little about whether I'm a real INTP or not and more about the reality of uncommon type/enneagram combos.
    Here's my complete profile for reference:
    introverted Thinking (Ti) --->(46.4)
    extraverted Intuiting (Ne)---> (39.2)
    introverted Feeling (Fi)--->(35.9)
    extraverted Thinking (Te)--->(33.3)
    introverted Intuiting (Ni)--->(28.1)
    introverted Sensing (Si)---> (22.8)
    extraverted Sensing (Se)---> (20.1)
    extraverted Feeling (Fe)--->(14.6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Ti-doms have Fi in the devil position. Apparently that means that you can be tempted into using it but you have trouble using it in a balanced way, you tend to go overboard in it, when you do engage in it.
    For me, for instance, it's Se. I *love* good food, physical touches, the feeling of soft fabric on my skin, dancing, sex..etc
    However, I also suck at finding things and focusing on what's in front of me. So I do have a relative good use of it in some places....and rather bad one in others. Most importantly...I abuse it when I'm stressed. I'm likely to go shopping like mad, engage in pure physical stimulation in order to forget my responsibilities and take away my anxiety etc....
    Perhaps your use of Fi is somewhat the same, which then ties into the 4 enneagram?
    I'm a little skeptical about those process positions, but suppose that could make sense. But according to your description, I have a lot of my processes in that position
    I'm still not so sure how that would play into the enneagram. Would that mean that I am a real four, or just a five with a strong evil four wing that takes over sometimes...

  6. #6
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post

    Interesting, it would be cool to hear more about being ENFP 1.
    ...
    stringstheory is ENFP 1.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    i have a feeling that NTP 4s have often that .... decadent vibe... like somewhat sexually provocative and expressive, like passionate but detached sex animals.
    at least i spoted it in few NTP 4s.

    unlike NF 4s who cant consider sex only a play, often.

  8. #8
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloé View Post
    i have a feeling that NTP 4s have often that .... decadent vibe... like somewhat sexually provocative and expressive, like passionate but detached sex animals.
    at least i spoted it in few NTP 4s.

    unlike NF 4s who cant consider sex only a play, often.
    what does that mean?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #9
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    what does that mean?
    that some ntp 4s i know seem very passionate about sex but dont consider it necessary "making love", ... i was mostly having klimt in mind, he was sleeping with everybody...

    it's just observation based on few ntp 4s, i know it doesnt apply to majority.

    but passion + detachment in them is very intriguing.

  10. #10
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    so...you're saying an nt 4 can be passionate about sex but it doesn't necessarily mean anything...unlike the nf 4's?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

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