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  1. #41
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Further proof that I'm not a type 9, if any were needed

    I think my response in such a scenario would have been something along the lines of: "What I believe in really isn't anything to do with you, so why don't you give it a rest and mind your own business instead of mine?"

    I don't see why you'd be so worried about hurting someone who's behaving in a passive-aggressive manner and trying to manipulate, or how this would be (as Morgan seems to be saying) in any way "liberating". All it's likely to achieve, it seems to me, is keeping them on your back by using the same tactics because they're achieving their purpose, whereas what you actually want is them off your back with the obnoxious controlling behaviour. If you don't express yourself assertively and show you mean business in that kind of situation, their expectations will remain unchallenged, and you don't give yourself much option for dealing with the situation except being passive-aggressively avoidant yourself (ie by making up excuses for not going, disappearing at the vital moment, or "forgetting" about it). To me backing yourself into a corner where you can't express yourself directly isn't in any way liberating, it seems more confining. Just my take on it though
    Yes.

    Nines seem to have a lot of trouble with boundaries. Most people intuitively understand what their rights and responsibilities are, they understand which boundaries are healthy and appropriate and which are damaging. I can't really apprehend how nines perceive the world with this desire to "merge" and be one with everything and to have peace at any price. That seems like regression to a 5.

    In the example cited, (which I happen to have personal experience with) I have no problem asserting my beliefs (or lack thereof) and recognizing that if my parent has a problem with the fact that I don't share her beliefs then that's too bad. I am an adult, exercising appropriate boundaries and she is not. If however, I were to ridicule or excessively criticize her faith then that would be an example of a reversal of those roles.

    Not having this implicit understanding of appropriate boundaries does explain why a 9 might swing from "everything is my fault" to "nothing is my fault". The truth is always somewhere in the middle of that swing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #42
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Yes.

    Nines seem to have a lot of trouble with boundaries. Most people intuitively understand what their rights and responsibilities are, they understand which boundaries are healthy and appropriate and which are damaging. I can't really apprehend how nines perceive the world with this desire to "merge" and be one with everything and to have peace at any price. That seems like regression to a 5.

    In the example cited, (which I happen to have personal experience with) I have no problem asserting my beliefs (or lack thereof) and recognizing that if my parent has a problem with the fact that I don't share her beliefs then that's too bad. I am an adult, exercising appropriate boundaries and she is not. If however, I were to ridicule or excessively criticize her faith then that would be an example of a reversal of those roles.

    Not having this implicit understanding of appropriate boundaries does explain why a 9 might swing from "everything is my fault" to "nothing is my fault". The truth is always somewhere in the middle of that swing.
    That's one of the best ways I've seen it put!

    What else can you tell us?

    And I have another question. I've never, EVER understood what the enneagram has meant by "instincts." Not like sx, sp, so but as one of the functions of the types (which are thinking, feeling, and instincts). Like how 9's are equally strong in their thinking and feeling, but have suppressed instincts to maintain the peace. I have no idea what they mean by that; and I've never seen any explanation.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    In the example cited, (which I happen to have personal experience with) I have no problem asserting my beliefs (or lack thereof) and recognizing that if my parent has a problem with the fact that I don't share her beliefs then that's too bad. I am an adult, exercising appropriate boundaries and she is not.
    Ah! So it's like:

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    It's their problem, not mine.

  4. #44
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Ah! So it's like:
    I knew you were going to do that.

    *pats you on the head*

    Actually, it's not the same thing. You are conflating them because you seem to think all conflict/self-assertion = bad. What I was saying is that having your own views and opinions which you stand by = good, inflicting them on others without regard to their feelings = bad. So kind of the opposite of what you were saying. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    I knew you were going to do that.

    *pats you on the head*

    Actually, it's not the same thing. You are conflating them because you seem to think all conflict/self-assertion = bad. What I was saying is that having your own views and opinions which you stand by = good, inflicting them on others without regard to their feelings = bad. So kind of the opposite of what you were saying. :P
    Thankfully, I never said that.

    Let's look at what I actually said:

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I now care less what others think/feel,
    I care less, not that I don't care at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    and realize that they can handle whatever I say/do far better than I previously expected.
    Other people are stronger than I gave them credit for, I was viewing them much like myself, thinking they would be disturbed just because I would be disturbed, which is untrue.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I no longer have to weigh each statement before I fire it out. It's more fun to throw it all up in the air and see where it lands.
    I don't have to bite my tongue just because I am unsure of how something will be taken. I can just see how it is taken and then react accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I'm overly sensitive to how things are interpreted, so if I see little problem with a statement, then if someone has a reaction to it they're the ones that are overly sensitive.
    As in, I've already considered how another will view what I say/write. Even then, I sometimes would still not communicate on the off chance I was wrong. No communication is worse than bad communication. You can always correct the latter. People just aren't as sensitive as I often imagine them to be. And if in my estimation I don't find something offensive it's likely not. And if someone still finds it offensive, then it's likely I've stumbled on some hot button issue, in which case:

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    It's their problem, not mine.

  6. #46
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Thankfully, I never said that.
    Well, we know you're not very good at saying what you actually mean.

    Other people are stronger than I gave them credit for
    How do you know this? Just because you have discovered you are a 9? You think you are the most sensitive creature on the planet? Unlikely. Esp if you are high 5 as you claim.

    I don't have to bite my tongue just because I am unsure of how something will be taken. I can just see how it is taken and then react accordingly.
    A mature nine, or a mature anyone, would use foresight rather than just suck it and see.

    People just aren't as sensitive as I often imagine them to be. And if in my estimation I don't find something offensive it's likely not. And if someone still finds it offensive, then it's likely I've stumbled on some hot button issue, in which case:[it's their problem, not mine]
    You are stuck in this egocentric reasoning / projection.
    "I don't find it offensive, ergo, it's not offensive."
    This is wrong. I don't know if you are just being too proud to admit it, or if you really believe it. You think pressing people's buttons is okay because they're not your buttons? Seriously?
    In fact, this whole approach reads as incredibly egocentric - you're relieved/liberated because you have found a way to ruffle as many feathers as you like without ruffling any of your own.

    Besides which, I'm not sure where you're getting this impression that you usually treat people with kid gloves - that's not my experience of you on the forums at all. You're something of a dick, which you're the first to admit..
    /from one dick to another
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    You are stuck in this egocentric reasoning / projection.
    "I don't find it offensive, ergo, it's not offensive."
    This is wrong. I don't know if you are just being too proud to admit it, or if you really believe it. You think pressing people's buttons is okay because they're not your buttons? Seriously?
    In fact, this whole approach reads as incredibly egocentric - you're relieved/liberated because you have found a way to ruffle as many feathers as you like without ruffling any of your own.
    Mind reading is a bad idea. I can only go on what I know, or guess at, and that often comes from within.

    I don't go out of my way to press buttons (usually), but I am not responsible for every person's issue just because I happen to stumble across it. Find another Type 9 martyr, I'm done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Besides which, I'm not sure where you're getting this impression that you usually treat people with kid gloves - that's not my experience of you on the forums at all. You're something of a dick, which you're the first to admit..
    /from one dick to another
    I'm far, far worse in my head.

    I don't treat people with kid gloves anymore. Four years ago? For sure. There was once a graph made by an INTP about how I was the anti-Hustler of INTPc (those from there understand this reference).

  8. #48
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Mind reading is a bad idea. I can only go on what I know, or guess at, and that often comes from within.
    Projection isn't any better than mind-reading. The advantage of empathy - which is what I think you are trying to say - is that you can recalibrate when you are wrong. The "my interpretation is the only valid one" doesn't benefit from that recalibration.
    I don't go out of my way to press buttons (usually), but I am not responsible for every person's issue just because I happen to stumble across it. Find another Type 9 martyr, I'm done.
    Huh? Did I hit a sensitive button?

    I don't treat people with kid gloves anymore. Four years ago? For sure. There was once a graph made by an INTP about how I was the anti-Hustler of INTPc (those from there understand this reference).
    But you're talking to me right now so that reference has no value. Four years ago you thought you were a 5 so it kinda blows away your whole argument in this thread.

    Know what I think? I think you've pissed a few people off recently and this thread is your attempt to excuse yourself. That's what you usually do.
    Proud of you for continuing to engage beyond your comfort-zone into the conflict zone though.
    I feel like you're growing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #49
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    Maybe some 9s that disagree with me could chime in, as none have yet.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Four years ago you thought you were a 5 so it kinda blows away your whole argument in this thread.
    How? I was a 9 then, behaved like one, even if I didn't recognize it.

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