[Type 9] Type 9 is liberating

[MacGuffin]

At the lower end of the Continuum, Nines are a "menace to [their] environment" because, like everyone else, they have a characteristic form of selfishness, although it is more difficult to perceive in Nines than in other types because they are so apparently accommodating to others. The particular form which their selfishness takes is their willingness to sacrifice a great many values—in a sense, their willingingness to sacrifice all of reality—so they can maintain their inner serenity. Being anxious or emotionally stimulated in any way is extraordinarily threatening for average to unhealthy Nines because they are unused to being aware of their feelings. Virtually any kind of emotional reaction disrupts the fullness of their repression, whether the reaction is caused by anxiety, aggression, or something else. The result is that average Nines seek peace at any price, although the price they selfishly but unwittingly pay is that they turn an increasingly blind eye on everyone and everything.

Exactly. Learning that it isn't the end of the world means you get to engage others more than previously rather than just avoiding them.

 

[Ginkgo]

For the longest time, I thought I was a type 5 (as INTP). Most INTPs are that enneagram type, so naturally I thought it was me. Despite the fact that Type 9 would often test equal to or above Type 5 for myself.

In the past year, I've come to accept that I am Type 9.

The 9 is often described as the Peacemaker, and that really applied to me. I didn't like drama or other people intruding on my little world. Don't rock the boat, don't make waves, don't do anything I have to deal with other than my own thoughts.

Realizing this is my natural tendency has actually freed me from its constraints. I now care less what others think/feel, and realize that they can handle whatever I say/do far better than I previously expected. I no longer have to weigh each statement before I fire it out. It's more fun to throw it all up in the air and see where it lands. I'm overly sensitive to how things are interpreted, so if I see little problem with a statement, then if someone has a reaction to it they're the ones that are overly sensitive. It's their problem, not mine.

This is not to say that I can't or won't attempt to find harmony with others. It's that I don't have to do it all the time, I can choose when I want it and when I don't.

I wonder if any other Type 9 has discovered this as well.

What your describing sounds alot like 5. 5s retreat into their own thoughts to cope with a world they find to be intrusive. It is a challenge for them to see themselves as adequately equipped to involve themselves with the external world. When in relationships with others, they often mitigate the amount given and the amount reciprocated between them and the other person because they would rather remain as detached as possible. They seek objectivity by exerting as little energy as possible.

This may sometimes give the appearance of 9, since 9s are somewhat aloof when dealing with conflict. However, the core motivation for 9 is not objectivity but harmony, sometimes at all costs. They often go with the flow, and find just the right leverage point to do so naturally. The 5 would find him/herself resisting absolute harmony if it compromised the truth in some way.

 

[Salomé]

Exactly. Learning that it isn't the end of the world means you get to engage others more than previously rather than just avoiding them.

Whatever. This is still wrong:

if I see little problem with a statement, then if someone has a reaction to it they're the ones that are overly sensitive. It's their problem, not mine.

And still an example of turning a blind eye and believing that everything is ok, and that you are blameless. It's a pitfall. But of course, you don't want to see that, because you are caught in it.
This is the worse thing about nines, IME.

Using the enneagram to justify wrong treatment of others, rather than to examine yourself, is an abuse of it.

 

[MacGuffin]

What your describing sounds alot like 5. 5s retreat into their own thoughts to cope with a world they find to be intrusive. It is a challenge for them to see themselves as adequately equipped to involve themselves with the external world. When in relationships with others, they often mitigate the amount given and the amount reciprocated between them and the other person because they would rather remain as detached as possible. They seek objectivity by exerting as little energy as possible.

This may sometimes give the appearance of 9, since 9s are somewhat aloof when dealing with conflict. However, the core motivation for 9 is not objectivity but harmony, sometimes at all costs. They often go with the flow, and find just the right leverage point to do so naturally. The 5 would find him/herself resisting absolute harmony if it compromised the truth in some way.

I'd agree with that, but 9s can withdraw into their own world esp. 9w1.

Whatever. This is still wrong:

And still an example of turning a blind eye and believing that everything is ok, and that you are blameless. It's a pitfall. But of course, you don't want to see that, because you are caught in it.
This is the worse thing about nines, IME.

Using the enneagram to justify wrong treatment of others, rather than to examine yourself, is an abuse of it.

You're still looking at it from the 5 perspective.

A 5 following this path becomes a sociopath.

A 9 folllowing this path becomes normal.

It's not about rejecting ALL responsibility, it's about learning that not all disruption is a bad thing, and many times can be attributed to the other person's issues. A drama queen is going to do the drama thing anyway, it's not the 9's problem.

 

[Salomé]

You're still looking at it from the 5 perspective.

A 5 following this path becomes a sociopath.

A 9 folllowing this path becomes normal.

It's not about rejecting ALL responsibility, it's about learning that not all disruption is a bad thing, and many times can be attributed to the other person's issues. A drama queen is going to do the drama thing anyway, it's not the 9's problem.

I see. So 9s are qualified to analyze 5s but not the other way around?
Enjoy the view!

 

[MacGuffin]

I see. So 9s are qualified to analyze 5s but not the other way around?
Enjoy the view!

I'm almost Type 5, so I have a Ghetto Pass.

 

[Kasper]

Hey! That was my avatar elsewhere for quite some time!

*avoids some more*

 

[Salomé]

^I knew stalking you would come in handy one day.

I'm almost Type 5, so I have a Ghetto Pass.

To becoming a sociopath?
Keep on digging, Guffy.

 

[MacGuffin]

To becoming a sociopath?
Keep on digging, Guffy.

I'll get to China eventually!

How do you think 9s should attack their avoidance problem with other people?

 

[PeaceBaby]

Nice thread MacGuffin - I'll come back later to add my thoughts.

FWIW I feel a resonance with you that I generally experience with other 9's. Same with wolfy (edit: I know he's ISFP), Edahn and some other INTP 9's here. And this was before I knew they were 9's.

Just sayin'.

 

[MacGuffin]

FWIW I feel a resonance with you that I generally experience with other 9's.

Thanks

Same with wolfy, Edahn and some other INTP 9's here. And this was before I knew they were 9's.

Congrats wolfy! Upgraded to INTP from ISFP!

 

[Salomé]

How do you think 9s should attack their avoidance problem with other people?

Do you avoid people? Or do you just avoid unpleasantness?

R&H advice is to accept suffering as a tool for becoming self-aware, rather than sublimating/repressing it/avoiding it.

 

[MacGuffin]

Do you avoid people? Or do you just avoid unpleasantness?

The latter.

R&H advice is to accept suffering as a tool for becoming self-aware, rather than sublimating/repressing it/avoiding it.

How?

 

[Salomé]

How?

How do you accept suffering?
Not numbing yourself with alcohol and other "self-medication" is a good start.
What do you tend to use to escape (suffering)?

 

[MacGuffin]

How do you accept suffering?
Not numbing yourself with alcohol and other "self-medication" is a good start.
What do you tend to use to escape (suffering)?

Avoidance.

 

[Salomé]

Avoidance.

You forgot the asterisks.

 

[MacGuffin]

You forgot the asterisks.

I avoided them.



Let's use an example:

Say you have a religious mother but you're an atheist. She expects you to attend church. If you tell you her you don't and that you don't believe in God, you will trigger a crying guilt trip that will last for hours, and the subject will come up again and again. Why not simply avoid the subject then? Or - if you don't avoid it, what is the point of not avoiding it? You'll hurt your mother, why hurt her?

 

[Salomé]

Let's use an example:

Say you have a religious mother but you're an atheist. She expects you to attend church. If you tell you her you don't and that you don't believe in God, you will trigger a crying guilt trip that will last for hours, and the subject will come up again and again. Why not simply avoid the subject then? Or - if you don't avoid it, what is the point of not avoiding it? You'll hurt your mother, why hurt her?

What is that an example of? Being liberated?
I'm missing your point somewhere...

 

[ragashree]

I avoided them.

Let's use an example:

Say you have a religious mother but you're an atheist. She expects you to attend church. If you tell you her you don't and that you don't believe in God, you will trigger a crying guilt trip that will last for hours, and the subject will come up again and again. Why not simply avoid the subject then? Or - if you don't avoid it, what is the point of not avoiding it? You'll hurt your mother, why hurt her?

Further proof that I'm not a type 9, if any were needed

I think my response in such a scenario would have been something along the lines of: "What I believe in really isn't anything to do with you, so why don't you give it a rest and mind your own business instead of mine?"

I don't see why you'd be so worried about hurting someone who's behaving in a passive-aggressive manner and trying to manipulate, or how this would be (as Morgan seems to be saying) in any way "liberating". All it's likely to achieve, it seems to me, is keeping them on your back by using the same tactics because they're achieving their purpose, whereas what you actually want is them off your back with the obnoxious controlling behaviour. If you don't express yourself assertively and show you mean business in that kind of situation, their expectations will remain unchallenged, and you don't give yourself much option for dealing with the situation except being passive-aggressively avoidant yourself (ie by making up excuses for not going, disappearing at the vital moment, or "forgetting" about it). To me backing yourself into a corner where you can't express yourself directly isn't in any way liberating, it seems more confining. Just my take on it though

 

[BlackCat]

NT type 9's have always been a bit weird to me. Since I definitely feel a resonance with them but then there is the fact that we think so much differently.