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  1. #161
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Are we doing Zen now?
    you know...just being there for someone while it not being about you at all....taking yourself out of the equation...you're not at fault...not to blame...it has nothing to do with you.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #162
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I disagree, sometimes people need judging. Accepting and validating feelings all the time with everyone is an impossible task.
    Is it an easier task to judge or just to accept what is?


    Tolle talks about how suffering leads to greater consciousness (and thence to the end of suffering, i.e. true liberation/enlightenment). If you don't first allow yourself to experience that suffering (i.e. by avoiding reality, self-medicating, rationalizing, disassociating) you can never progress towards self-awareness. You are trapped with your fears and alienated from yourself and others.

    Blaming/judging others is not a way out of suffering. Because when we attribute blame, we feel resentment and anger, which makes us suffer and makes the person we resent suffer too. It cuts us off from them. Lose-lose. The solution is not to become less sensitive to others, but more sensitive to ourselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Is it an easier task to judge or just to accept what is?


    Tolle talks about how suffering leads to greater consciousness (and thence to the end of suffering, i.e. true liberation/enlightenment). If you don't first allow yourself to experience that suffering (i.e. by avoiding reality, self-medicating, rationalizing, disassociating) you can never progress towards self-awareness. You are trapped with your fears and alienated from yourself and others.

    Blaming/judging others is not a way out of suffering. Because when we attribute blame, we feel resentment and anger, which makes us suffer and makes the person we resent suffer too. It cuts us off from them. Lose-lose. The solution is not to become less sensitive to others, but more sensitive to ourselves.
    I agree with most of that, but dismissing others doesn't always lead to resentment and anger. You can simply stop thinking about them.

  4. #164
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    You can simply stop thinking about them.
    ...and we're back to avoiding reality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #165
    Senior Member Bushranger's Avatar
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    I don't generally follow enneagram too closely, but I have typed as 9w1 and the peacemaker attributes rang true for me.

    I think it takes a very unhealthy 9 to actively inflict suffering, though they can be good at it since they often know where the buttons lie.

    The 9 generally seeks to maintain harmony. It is not always possible. Too many people enjoy sowing discord, and buttons are hard to unpush.

    Realising that you are more sensitive to conflict than most people can be liberating, as it allows you to worry less about being the source of disharmony and lower the level of self-censorship.

    I have people close to me that always choose to escalate in the face of conflict, they make easy marks for trolls and bullies.

    Avoidance is not inherently a bad thing. You don't have to walk through or over the mountain, walking around is perfectly acceptable. What is not acceptable is using the mountain as an excuse to avoid the trip.
    I'll get you my pretty, and your little hermit crab too!

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushranger View Post
    I don't generally follow enneagram too closely, but I have typed as 9w1 and the peacemaker attributes rang true for me.

    I think it takes a very unhealthy 9 to actively inflict suffering, though they can be good at it since they often know where the buttons lie.

    The 9 generally seeks to maintain harmony. It is not always possible. Too many people enjoy sowing discord, and buttons are hard to unpush.

    Realising that you are more sensitive to conflict than most people can be liberating, as it allows you to worry less about being the source of disharmony and lower the level of self-censorship.

    I have people close to me that always choose to escalate in the face of conflict, they make easy marks for trolls and bullies.

    Avoidance is not inherently a bad thing. You don't have to walk through or over the mountain, walking around is perfectly acceptable. What is not acceptable is using the mountain as an excuse to avoid the trip.
    Well said, esp. the bolded.

  7. #167
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Hi all, see a lot has been going on since I've last been around!

    Anyway, I really have no idea if I'm a type 5 or type 9. I think I'm probably 9.

    Not sure if the Jack Flac example is evidence in favor, though.



    Edit: also, regarding this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Evan was supercilious, yes. He admitted that he passive-aggressively taunted (a drunk and depressed) Jack into self-destructive behaviour. He gave him some rope, when that was the last thing he needed.
    I don't see much to admire about that.
    I definitely acted in a oppositional manner to Jack in that final interaction. But do remember that he was taunting me for my girlfriend and first love dying in the middle of our relationship. I'm not saying I acted maturely, but I doubt many people would.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I definitely acted in a oppositional manner to Jack in that final interaction. But do remember that he was taunting me for my girlfriend and first love dying in the middle of our relationship. I'm not saying I acted maturely, but I doubt many people would.
    You were fine.

  9. #169
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    On many of the profiles I read it said that one of the main differences between fives and nines is that fives are drawn to darker and more disturbing systems of thought (Indeed, I've often whimsically thought how the world would be infinitely better and more interesting place were the mythologies cultivated by H.P. Lovecraft true) than nines are, who prefer more "harmonious" systems and theories.

    Indeed, now that I think about it, I am always drawn to the dark, and the tragic, and the horrific, dissonance over harmony, dark over light, and sad over happy. So, in that way, I am more a five than a nine.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I read a lot of horror/mystery novels (including a Lovecraft phase in college) and prefer a tragedy to a happy ending, but I don't think that makes me a 5.
    I've been avoiding admitting I'm probably a type 9 for a while now (ha). When I first took the enneagram I tested 9. I redid it to correct the obvious mistake and got an equal split on 5 and 4. The descriptions I've seen of 9s are universally negative, which is probably why people often seem to have difficulty accepting that it's their type. This thread makes me think I almost certainly am one whether I like it or not. And I likewise am fascinated by horror, dissonance, darkness and tragedy. So either I'm not a 9 or that's no way to disqualify a 9 result. Sorry.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I've been avoiding admitting I'm probably a type 9 for a while now (ha). When I first took the enneagram I tested 9. I redid it to correct the obvious mistake and got an equal split on 5 and 4. The descriptions I've seen of 9s are universally negative, which is probably why people often seem to have difficulty accepting that it's their type. This thread makes me think I almost certainly am one whether I like it or not. And I likewise am fascinated by horror, dissonance, darkness and tragedy. So either I'm not a 9 or that's no way to disqualify a 9 result. Sorry.
    The type descriptions of the 9 are the worst. You're either a passive lump or an emotional fluffer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    I wasn't suggesting that that's the only reason why I am a five, but as I was reading through profiles of the two types in order to find which one I related to more, that comparison was suggested as a quick tiebreaker. It had the effect of silencing my cognitive dissonance and self-doubt for a while, and so I was satisfied.
    The other thing I read is 5s rarely think they are 9s, but 9s often mistake themselves for 5s.

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