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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    It is. I am just going to post some random thoughts as they come to me...

    I am not so knowledgeable on the enneagram but find it interesting. Lately I can see room for learning something about myself through it. I was watching this excellent video on the nine type, it is here. I've seen a few videos that are very poor in how they represent nine. It seems to me that nine growth is more about a kind of undulating need to move forward or take a step back. There seems to be a kind of zen like state to the ultimate nine, in the descriptions at least. It seems an almost impossible to reach that state. Responsive to the environment yet always balanced. I think it has something to do with locus of control. That is where there is a gap in your original statement, you didn't allow for feedback and adjustment. I understand what you meant though, you can't control peoples reactions. The issue is that if you approach the situation without the loop back to yourself taking control I think you end up defining yourself by your environment again. You define yourself by conflict. Which is the same as defining yourself in harmony. You are still merging with the environment and taking your agenda from it. It isn't entirely true to say you do but there is definitely that danger. Though you could just be, in the same way martial artists are in kung fu classics. “Take things as they are. Punch when you have to punch. Kick when you have to kick.”

    “Notice that the stiffest tree is most easily cracked, while the bamboo or willow survives by bending with the wind.”

    I am interested in learning more about nine. I don't know, but there it is.
    I'm glad you understood me. I probably should've had you write the OP! I didn't mean to limit feedback or adjustment.

    Thanks for the video. I find the descriptions of the Type 9 out there to be pretty poor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    How is that other people's problems? Sounds like you are the one with the problem in that scenario.
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    I feel like I've hit the same brick wall as in the argument about truthfulness. There, you wouldn't accept that your own agenda will come up with rationalizations for lying, here, you won't accept that your own agenda will come up with rationalizations for destructive/hurtful behaviour.


    Everyone lies. Everyone rationalizes. The problem with the 9 is that they often limit themselves by rationalizing they are the source of the disturbance. Keeping the "peace" by shutting down. Avoiding conflict when it is better to engage in it. That sometimes, and here is the qualifier yet again, SOMETIMES the reaction of the other person is their own issue, it's not what the 9 did. SOMETIMES
    SOMETIMES
    SOMETIMES
    SOMETIMES
    SOMETIMES
    SOMETIMES

    If a 9 always believes themselves to be at fault, they'll be paralyzed with inaction. Recognizing they don't have to settle the other person, it's not always the 9's responsibility to smooth things out and not take a firm stand in the face of other's reactions. The other person can take ownership of themselves.

  2. #132
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post


    Everyone lies. Everyone rationalizes. The problem with the 9 is that they often limit themselves by rationalizing they are the source of the disturbance. Keeping the "peace" by shutting down. Avoiding conflict when it is better to engage in it. That sometimes, and here is the qualifier yet again, SOMETIMES the reaction of the other person is their own issue, it's not what the 9 did. SOMETIMES
    SOMETIMES
    SOMETIMES
    SOMETIMES
    SOMETIMES
    SOMETIMES

    If a 9 always believes themselves to be at fault, they'll be paralyzed with inaction. Recognizing they don't have to settle the other person, it's not always the 9's responsibility to smooth things out and not take a firm stand in the face of other's reactions. The other person can take ownership of themselves.
    What are you trying to say? That [sometimes] it's not your fault?
    :P

    That's not my point. Of course everyone must own their own reactions. In fact, no one can hurt you unless you first give them the power to do so. My point is that you don't have to go looking for blame and fault in the other person in order to numb your own pain. You just have to accept and deal with the discomfort of a not always completely harmonious universe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    What are you trying to say? That sometimes it's not your fault?
    :P

    That's not my point. Of course everyone must own their own reactions. In fact, no one can hurt you unless you first give them the power to do so. My point is that you don't have to go looking for blame and fault in the other person in order to numb your own pain. You just have to accept and deal with the discomfort of a not always completely harmonious universe.
    Who said anything about numbing pain? It will still disturb the 9, but they have to go ahead and speak up/act out anyway. This thread is about the 9 giving up the unhealthy burden of believing they are responsible for everyone's well-being. In other words: your last sentence.

  4. #134
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Who said anything about numbing pain?
    Not you. That's the problem.
    It will still disturb the 9, but they have to go ahead and speak up/act out anyway. This thread is about the 9 giving up the unhealthy burden of believing they are responsible for everyone's well-being. In other words: your last sentence.
    How you get there is just as important as getting there.

    Your approach entails writing people off - fault-finding. My approach doesn't require that anyone be at fault. It is about being open and accepting of difference. Don't you see the difference? Really?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Not you. That's the problem.
    How you get there is just as important as getting there.

    Your approach entails writing people off - fault-finding. My approach doesn't require that anyone be at fault. It is about being open and accepting of difference. Don't you see the difference? Really?
    No fault = no problem. If there's a problem, something is wrong.

  6. #136
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    No fault = no problem. If there's a problem, something is wrong.
    THAT is the mental block you have to overcome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #137
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    right...i hear ya morgan...somethings just are...and fault is beside the point.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    THAT is the mental block you have to overcome.
    Never gonna solve problems that way.

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    right...i hear ya morgan...somethings just are...and fault is beside the point.
    You always get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Never gonna solve problems that way.
    I thought you'd liberated yourself from that burden already?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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