[Type 3] 3w4 vs. 4w3

[Thalassa]

This may seem obvious to some people, but I'd really like to read input on the difference between these two, since I'm a 4w3.

 

[Chloe]

i see it as one if this is much more pronounced..
being successful vs. being unique..

i am 3, but i dont have a wing. if i said i was 3w4 it'd be simply because i'm NF and it is similar to 4.

 

[the state i am in]

i think 3w4 and 7w8 are an interesting contrast as well. and how many sx people can identify with the conflict of e4 and the same kind of seeking, desire for expression, sense of self-completion, etc.

 

[Rhapsody]

I am really curious about what the difference is between these two types as well. I don't think I have a firm grasp of how 3w4 and 4w3 differ, but here's what I understand to be the differences between 3 and 4 (without taking wings into account). Maybe this still applies when the wings are brought in as well ... (quotes taken from enneagraminstitute.com)

3: More likely to deal with emotions by pushing them aside and immersing themselves in work.

4: More likely to deal with emotions by immersing themselves in/exploring the emotions, and won't be able to focus on work until their emotions have been processed.

3: Greatest fear is "being worthless."

4: Greatest fear is having "no identity or personal significance" (which is really similar to the 3's greatest fear, now that I think about it ...)

3: Respond to stress by becoming numb and tuning reality out like an unhealthy 9.

4: Respond to stress by becoming overly involved with and attached to other people like an unhealthy 2.

3: Personal growth leads them to become less self-involved and "more cooperative and committed to others" like healthy 6s.

4: Personal growth leads them to become more "objective and principled" like healthy 1s.

 

[Chloe]

3: More likely to deal with emotions by pushing them aside and immersing themselves in work.

4: More likely to deal with emotions by immersing themselves in/exploring the emotions, and won't be able to focus on work until their emotions have been processed.

According to this I'd be 4. And I'm not. So this is not criteria in which one can really tell apart 3 and 4.

3: Greatest fear is "being worthless."

4: Greatest fear is having "no identity or personal significance" (which is really similar to the 3's greatest fear, now that I think about it ...)

I think even here my fear more corresponds to 4's fears. And yes, it's very similar. Again, 3 feels less fear. Is aware of less fears. 3s busy so not acknowledges her fears, which fits good into having 6 "Soul child" that is very fearful and 3s run away most from fear.

3: Respond to stress by becoming numb and tuning reality out like an unhealthy 9.

4: Respond to stress by becoming overly involved with and attached to other people like an unhealthy 2.

I think this is the best way to tell wether someone is 3 or 4. I always have that 3 to 9 shift when I am very stressed. Not going out of the bed thing, not caring about most stuff.

Facing stress 3 would make million plans at once, even have adrenalin rush and after some/all of it fails, or simply reality strikes, 3 will go to 9, feeling lethargic, wanting to sleep much and not caring.

Shifting to to 2 when you're stressed is very different. I have 4 friend who when is really stressed becomes very nurturing towards people (he's NT!), and normaly he is self absorbed 4.

 

[Venom]

I think this is the best way to tell wether someone is 3 or 4. I always have that 3 to 9 shift when I am very stressed. Not going out of the bed thing, not caring about most stuff.

Facing stress 3 would make million plans at once, even have adrenalin rush and after some/all of it fails, or simply reality strikes, 3 will go to 9, feeling lethargic, wanting to sleep much and not caring.

Shifting to to 2 when you're stressed is very different. I have 4 friend who when is really stressed becomes very nurturing towards people (he's NT!), and normaly he is self absorbed 4.

This seems to support what I suspected... I'm a 3. an introvert 3. An NF 3. No wonder all of this personality crap has previously been so conflicting! I think a lot of 3s might be picking 4w3 just to fit their introversion in MBTI. After some thought, I think 3s can be Ambiverted. Introverts would appear to be goal seekers and hero status seekers just the same if they were Fe types of some sort.

 

[Santosha]

Im still stuggling with this. Definately either 3w4 sx or 4w3 sx. I have considered going to a certified enneagram institute to figure it out. I can't determine the core fear. Being worthless IS having no personal signifigance in my mind. I also seek self identity. I have responded to severe stress and depression like that of a 2 AND that of a 9 (depending on circumstance). My parental orientation was attached to mother figure prior to 10, but took on a marked sense of not seeing myself in either parent by 12. I have seen (self identified) 3's admit that they are not worka-holics and actually tend to the lazy side. I recognized in myself times where I must be doing something to feel okay, and times that I just want to sit and fantasize. I believe one account states that a core 3 MUST detach from emotions while working, but again, its not because they DONT feel, its because they believe that if they allow feelings to surface they will become too vulnerable to carry on with what needs to be done. I have felt this before. I have also had times in conflict with other people that I could barely pull myself together to work or called in. I do not identify with the detached-too difficult to understand-death fantasy 4. I seek to be understood and share my thoughts and feelings quite a bit. I am extroverted and image polished when I need to be, usually in any work or social function. I've heard 3's always bring topicsback to themselves, I've seen 4's do the same thing. I can listen to other people and their problems for some time w/o letting narcissism take hold (but i do have a streak of it). When with close friends and family I am capeable of being very dramatic, over emotional and demanding. I would NEVER reveal this during a work or social function, as I am not proud of myself in doing this but my emotions can take intense hold of me. I know how i feel in any given moment and hold strong opinions with politics, ethics, values.. but I struggle to understand how I feel deep down about people. This takes tremendous reflection and as soon as I think I've got it some new info enters the life picture and it changes. I admit that being seen as a loser is SLIGHTLY worse than being seen as a unoriginal. Also slightly embarassed to admit this, and it is close. Also don't identify with strong feelings of self-pity. Atleast nothing that i''d ever air. When i feel like I am not good enough this passionate thing wells up inside of me to change it. THe truth is I've had many awful things happen in my life, but I never want anyone to know about it. I loathe ever being seen as weak, incompetent, broken, or wallowing in self misery (even if inwardly i am a bit). So perhaps there is my answer? 3w4?

I tell you, the 3-4 blend is truly a complex subtype.. and I really do think that some people just need to bite the dust and go see a specialist in it.

^
Then again, I could just be projecting like a 6 on that last bit ;P

 

[hhp]

I can see the difficulty in telling 4w3's apart from 3w4's. My sister may be one of those two types, but I'm not sure which one.

On the one hand, she is very melodramatic and emotionally explosive; she gets angered or desperate just because the littlest thing, and usually thinks that nobody understands her and everybody wants to hurt her.

But on the other hand, she is over-concerned by external appearance, fashion and popularity; it seems at times that her only goal in life is spending lots of money, going to partys and being the center of attention.
It's funny because, since I'm a 5, we're pretty much opposites although we're sisters.

So yeah, 3w4's and 4w3's may be specially hard to differentiate

 

[skylights]

the line to draw between the two is, when it comes down to the wire, is she more concerned about being original, or maintaining a consistent persona? the true 4 will sacrifice what others think of them to make a personal statement, whereas the true 3 will sacrifice originality to be what they see as their ideal self. the 4 will dive into emotion to protect themself; the 3 will shut down emotion to protect themself.

from what i have experienced personally, 4w3 tends to come off more dynamic and 3w4 more cold. 4w3 more colorful and 3w4 more polished. 4w3 is more obvious about putting on a show. 3w4 is always putting on a show, so it is more discreet, in some ways.

 

[sulfit]

3w4 is more assertive but less individualistic. When making decisions, will watch which way the wind blows, especially if the person is a social variant.
4w3 is less assertive, more moody and withdrawn, but more independent and individualistic in self-expression.
3 will disintegrate to 9 and become slothful, lazy, and uncaring, while 4 will disintegrate towards 2 and become emotionally manipulative, privilege-seeking. Intergration/disintegration lines are a good way to tell which one is your main type, further descriptions.

 

[Wabs]

I am an ENFP 3w4.. although I am capable of being individual in the way I think, I only like this because I know it might get me somewhere in the future and not because I like the idea of being different to everyone else.. I think if I was a 4w3, this would be the opposite way around..

Instead of seeing individualism as a tool to success, I would see success as a platform to show my individualism.

 

[paixfleurs]

Fours dwell in their emotional pain and so they come across as melancholic. Threes repress such feelings, so they come off a lot colder.

 

[Santosha]

I just wanted to put this in here, it cleared it up for me.

Helen Palmer says:
There are 3 types of E4's. Some of them are almost E3 look alikes, they are extremely competitive, and tear around like 3s.( Some of the 4W3 subtypes. ) They are so active, that they never are depressed!

One of the biggest differences between 4w3 and 3w4 is

4w3: turns to activity to avoid depression and sorrow (this is me)
3w4: uses work to affirm themselves, more task oriented, wants to be successful, productive and talented.
So 4w3 uses 3 charactoristics to control or alter feelings, but its always about the feelings, while 3w4 may use 4 charactoristics to give a certain bent to their work, that provides them validation. but its always about validation.

Obviously this is not an absolute, but given the surveys and comparisons I've seen, to me it seems like

3w2 EFJ moderate N/S division
3w4 ENF moderate P/J divisoin
4w3 NFP moderate I/E division
4w5 INP moderate T/F division

 

[HBIC]

I am really curious about what the difference is between these two types as well. I don't think I have a firm grasp of how 3w4 and 4w3 differ, but here's what I understand to be the differences between 3 and 4 (without taking wings into account). Maybe this still applies when the wings are brought in as well ... (quotes taken from enneagraminstitute.com)

3: More likely to deal with emotions by pushing them aside and immersing themselves in work.

4: More likely to deal with emotions by immersing themselves in/exploring the emotions, and won't be able to focus on work until their emotions have been processed.

3: Greatest fear is "being worthless."

4: Greatest fear is having "no identity or personal significance" (which is really similar to the 3's greatest fear, now that I think about it ...)

3: Respond to stress by becoming numb and tuning reality out like an unhealthy 9.

4: Respond to stress by becoming overly involved with and attached to other people like an unhealthy 2.

3: Personal growth leads them to become less self-involved and "more cooperative and committed to others" like healthy 6s.

4: Personal growth leads them to become more "objective and principled" like healthy 1s.

According to this I'd be 4. And I'm not. So this is not criteria in which one can really tell apart 3 and 4.



I think even here my fear more corresponds to 4's fears. And yes, it's very similar. Again, 3 feels less fear. Is aware of less fears. 3s busy so not acknowledges her fears, which fits good into having 6 "Soul child" that is very fearful and 3s run away most from fear.


I think this is the best way to tell wether someone is 3 or 4. I always have that 3 to 9 shift when I am very stressed. Not going out of the bed thing, not caring about most stuff.

Facing stress 3 would make million plans at once, even have adrenalin rush and after some/all of it fails, or simply reality strikes, 3 will go to 9, feeling lethargic, wanting to sleep much and not caring.

Shifting to to 2 when you're stressed is very different. I have 4 friend who when is really stressed becomes very nurturing towards people (he's NT!), and normaly he is self absorbed 4.

the line to draw between the two is, when it comes down to the wire, is she more concerned about being original, or maintaining a consistent persona? the true 4 will sacrifice what others think of them to make a personal statement, whereas the true 3 will sacrifice originality to be what they see as their ideal self. the 4 will dive into emotion to protect themself; the 3 will shut down emotion to protect themself.

from what i have experienced personally, 4w3 tends to come off more dynamic and 3w4 more cold. 4w3 more colorful and 3w4 more polished. 4w3 is more obvious about putting on a show. 3w4 is always putting on a show, so it is more discreet, in some ways.

3w4 is more assertive but less individualistic. When making decisions, will watch which way the wind blows, especially if the person is a social variant.
4w3 is less assertive, more moody and withdrawn, but more independent and individualistic in self-expression.
3 will disintegrate to 9 and become slothful, lazy, and uncaring, while 4 will disintegrate towards 2 and become emotionally manipulative, privilege-seeking. Intergration/disintegration lines are a good way to tell which one is your main type, further descriptions.

I was pretty set on being a 4w3 based on descriptions but I took four tests yesterday just to confirm and surprise, surprise: got 3w4 in three of them, with it as a second option in the last one.

Based on this, the type 3 mindset is the same as mine, will have to take a good look into it now.