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  1. #11
    Senior Member gigi_xo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody View Post
    I think I am 3w4, though not entirely sure. I'm fairly certain I'm not 4w3. I could see myself being a 9 with a strong connection to 3 along the line of integration, especially after reading the thing posted about 3 being 9's soul child.

    In any case, Chloee sent me links to two graphics that show the overlap/opposition between xNFP and E3. You might find it interesting, state_I_am_in, if you are trying to figure out how NFPs and E3 mesh.

    INFP and E3: http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1461/infp3.jpg
    ENFP and E3: http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/899/gviewp.png

    the enfp one was startlingly accurate

    also, I feel like because I secretly want to be an entj, its not how I act but its what I wish i could do sometimes, distance myself from all these day dreams and procrastination & indecisiveness, I think that the 3ness in me comes from the enfp passion turned up to entj determination

    what I mean to say through my obvious nfp ramblings is this:

    I highly identify with 3's as both an individual & enfp

    and I wish i could be MORE 3 and less 4

    but be careful what you wish for...
    I live my life for the stars that shine & people say its just a waste of time- Oasis

    Extroverted (E) 65.63% Introverted (I) 34.38%
    Intuitive (N) 89.31% Sensing (S) 10.69%
    Feeling (F) 74.29% Thinking (T) 25.71%
    Perceiving (P) 74.19% Judging (J) 25.81%


    3w4

  2. #12
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody View Post
    I think I am 3w4, though not entirely sure. I'm fairly certain I'm not 4w3. I could see myself being a 9 with a strong connection to 3 along the line of integration, especially after reading the thing posted about 3 being 9's soul child.

    In any case, Chloee sent me links to two graphics that show the overlap/opposition between xNFP and E3. You might find it interesting, state_I_am_in, if you are trying to figure out how NFPs and E3 mesh.

    INFP and E3: http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1461/infp3.jpg
    ENFP and E3: http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/899/gviewp.png
    Source? I'd like to see them all. Which must be a lot.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigi_xo View Post
    also, I feel like because I secretly want to be an entj, its not how I act but its what I wish i could do sometimes, distance myself from all these day dreams and procrastination & indecisiveness, I think that the 3ness in me comes from the enfp passion turned up to entj determination
    This for me, too, except I do 'act ENTJ/3'. Whatever you'd want to call it. Lots of forward planning, assertiveness, and detaching myself from the situation to 'do what needs to be done'. I feel as though I'm an unmatched productivity powerhouse when I'm in that mode.

    but be careful what you wish for...
    But, this.

    When I'm in a mode like that, I'll end up giving my friends a 'swift kick in the ass' instead of the 'shoulder to cry on' that they may really need. I'm less patient overall. I speak my mind and have the potential to get myself into trouble with incorrect perceptions that I'm too quick to judge.

    It's just gotta be tempered.

  4. #14
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    I'm going to be lazy and quote myself from another thread, because I think this is pretty 3-ish:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Eyebrows View Post
    Accomplishments: a love/hate relationship

    My feeling when I graduated with my bachelor's degree was one of apathy. "Wake me up when I get my Ph.D." I didn't want to get a class ring or any other mementos, because it didn't really mean a whole lot to me.

    Masters degree? Same thing. Though, I relented and got a class ring because my parents urged me to do so.

    Promotions at work don't tend to mean a whole lot to me, because I'm looking to get a business of my own up and running eventually. "Wake me up when my business takes off."

    And I'm sure that, when I get my Ph.D. and/or get my business off the ground, I'll have another pot of gold that I'll be chasing, and so I won't stop for long to enjoy the one that I've already reached. Hell, I've already got plans for an MBA after my Ph.D. ..

    It's a tendency of mine to write off my own accomplishments and deem them trivial. I've gotten better about recognizing them, but, still--that lingering tendency is there.


    If I had to answer the question, my biggest accomplishment is probably overcoming my social and general anxiety. I feel pretty much no anxiety anymore--about anything--and that's enabled me to do so much more in life. It's freeing, rewarding, and relaxing.

    Since it had been a life-long struggle and a huge detriment to me in the early stages of my development, there was a lot to overcome.

  5. #15
    Senior Member gigi_xo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Eyebrows View Post
    This for me, too, except I do 'act ENTJ/3'. Whatever you'd want to call it. Lots of forward planning, assertiveness, and detaching myself from the situation to 'do what needs to be done'. I feel as though I'm an unmatched productivity powerhouse when I'm in that mode.


    This happens to me as well. Just it happens rarely. and when I'm in the zone I feel very, very Te. very Ne. very Te.

    my Fi almost gets shut off. and when this happens I feel a lot stronger. I like it.

    but it happens less. I suppose thats why you're more 3w4 and I'm MORE 4w3 thought I'm not convinced either way yet.



    But, this.

    When I'm in a mode like that, I'll end up giving my friends a 'swift kick in the ass' instead of the 'shoulder to cry on' that they may really need. I'm less patient overall. I speak my mind and have the potential to get myself into trouble with incorrect perceptions that I'm too quick to judge.

    It's just gotta be tempered.

    I mostly just get frustrated, almost introverted, a bit irritable when this happens.

    I WANT to speak my mind more. I really wish I knew how, but I'm too nervous. maybe I just need more confidence for this

    but in this mode, I'm certainly no shoulder to cry on
    I live my life for the stars that shine & people say its just a waste of time- Oasis

    Extroverted (E) 65.63% Introverted (I) 34.38%
    Intuitive (N) 89.31% Sensing (S) 10.69%
    Feeling (F) 74.29% Thinking (T) 25.71%
    Perceiving (P) 74.19% Judging (J) 25.81%


    3w4

  6. #16
    Senior Member Rhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Source? I'd like to see them all. Which must be a lot.
    Chloee says they are from Pat Wyman's book "Three Keys to Self-Understanding" (website on it here Pat Wyman Three Keys to Self-Understanding). I've been meaning to look into the book further, but haven't gotten the chance yet, so haven't seen what other Enneagram/MBTI diagrams it has.

    Edit: And here it is on Google Books. Not sure how much of the book you can see using that, though. - Three Keys to Self-Understanding: An ... - Google Books

  7. #17
    Senior Member surgery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    what mbti types are you 3w4?

    i've seen entp, exfj, and istp. does intp make any sense? entj?
    That's interesting that you've seen ISTP and ENTP Threes. How does Introverted Thinking figure into that style at all?

    Ti, as far as I understand it, is supposed to figure out how something works. It's "subjective logic," as Lenore Thompson describes it, used to "coordinate our behavior logically with immediate sensory data."

    From Personality Types: An Owners Manuel:

    "INTPs see logical implications in terms of systematic change over time (...)"
    "INTPs are likely to be more interested in the idea that animates a system and its impact on reality than they are with a system's objective utility."

    Even more action-oriented ISTPs probably wouldn't have much concern for understanding something for the sake of making themselves look better, or at least, not in order to construct a consistent image of success.
    If a Three used dominate Introverted Thinking, perhaps he or she would be a good trouble-shooter. Someone who quickly produces solutions to problems. In a professional environment this could bolster his reputation, but dominant Introverted Thinking naturally conflicts with the social adaptability of a Three. With Extraverted Feeling as the inferior function, "these types can be nearly oblivious to the social rituals and signs of relationship that Extraverted Feeling regulates.

    3w4s may be more introspective than 3w2s, but as Threes, they are still primarily extraverts, right?

    However, for ENTPs, things may be different:
    "Unlike ETPs, who involve themselves in whatever turns up and may not know what really suits them, ITPs know exactly what they are good at, and they don't feel the need to do much else."

    In the Heart Triad, Threes are the most removed from their feelings. They put them aside in order to complete tasks. Extraverted Judgement would make sense in relationship to that.
    However, would inferior Introverted Feeling be responsible for driving ETJs to experience one of the basic fears of a Three, such as feeling loved for the image and the performance rather than the true self?

    "Although ENTJs are not naturally tuned into other people's feelings, these individuals frequently have very strong sentimental streaks.
    Often these sentiments are very powerful to the ENTJ, although they will likely hide it from general knowledge, believing the feelings to be a weakness."
    (Personality Page, ENTJ)

    Also, could we make a case for ESJs more often being 3w2s while ENJs are more often 3w4?

    I feel like I am going in circles trying to find perfect correlations between the enneagram and functions in Myers-Briggs.

  8. #18
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by briar View Post
    That's interesting that you've seen ISTP and ENTP Threes. How does Introverted Thinking figure into that style at all?

    Ti, as far as I understand it, is supposed to figure out how something works. It's "subjective logic," as Lenore Thompson describes it, used to "coordinate our behavior logically with immediate sensory data."

    From Personality Types: An Owners Manuel:

    "INTPs see logical implications in terms of systematic change over time (...)"
    "INTPs are likely to be more interested in the idea that animates a system and its impact on reality than they are with a system's objective utility."

    Even more action-oriented ISTPs probably wouldn't have much concern for understanding something for the sake of making themselves look better, or at least, not in order to construct a consistent image of success.
    If a Three used dominate Introverted Thinking, perhaps he or she would be a good trouble-shooter. Someone who quickly produces solutions to problems. In a professional environment this could bolster his reputation, but dominant Introverted Thinking naturally conflicts with the social adaptability of a Three. With Extraverted Feeling as the inferior function, "these types can be nearly oblivious to the social rituals and signs of relationship that Extraverted Feeling regulates.

    3w4s may be more introspective than 3w2s, but as Threes, they are still primarily extraverts, right?

    However, for ENTPs, things may be different:
    "Unlike ETPs, who involve themselves in whatever turns up and may not know what really suits them, ITPs know exactly what they are good at, and they don't feel the need to do much else."

    In the Heart Triad, Threes are the most removed from their feelings. They put them aside in order to complete tasks. Extraverted Judgement would make sense in relationship to that.
    However, would inferior Introverted Feeling be responsible for driving ETJs to experience one of the basic fears of a Three, such as feeling loved for the image and the performance rather than the true self?

    "Although ENTJs are not naturally tuned into other people's feelings, these individuals frequently have very strong sentimental streaks.
    Often these sentiments are very powerful to the ENTJ, although they will likely hide it from general knowledge, believing the feelings to be a weakness."
    (Personality Page, ENTJ)

    Also, could we make a case for ESJs more often being 3w2s while ENJs are more often 3w4?

    I feel like I am going in circles trying to find perfect correlations between the enneagram and functions in Myers-Briggs.
    i like this.

    i see istps 3s as athletes and many famous crazy celebrities. think michael jordan and tom cruise. a very strong I WILL MAKE YOU LOVE ME kind of feeling i get from them. i will not stop, etc. do you disagree with typing them as 3w4 sx/sp? i was toying with typing hunter s thompson as 3w4 vs 7w8 for quentin tarantino. but most people thought hunter was a 7w8.

    i see 3 as being strongly correlated with Fe-Ti. Fe knowing how to communicate, understanding persuasive language, and Ti creating sequences and logical chains to understand how something will work. Ti folks are gamers in relationships, they begin to see causal connections and know what will happen with each response, creating a model of a person based on these rather than on a holistic Fi mapping/self-imagining.

    i think the esfj enfj 3w2 3w4 makes a lot of sense. tho i know 3w2 and 2w3 enfjs (i think), along with 2w1 and 1w2. i'm not sure if 4w5 makes sense, or what jonathan richman is, or leonard cohen. typing enfjs in enneagram is difficult for me. and i don't know if infj sx/so even exists, which would be the most blurred, assertive version of infj. that enfj and entp can be 3w4 also is interesting when trying to figure someone out, especially males in older age who develop Fe pretty decently. i think your point about 3 (and 7?) being primarily extroverted is good to keep in mind, but it seems like there is pretty good evidence here at least for istp as being well-represented among both types.

    i don't see how ntjs could be 3s because i see them, generally, as quite poor at image management. contending with the feelings of others and creating an image of themselves in those eyes in order to escape an inner sense of shame. i see ntj perfectionism more manifested as e1. but admittedly i am no expert on ntjs.

    i'm thinking the intp e3 idea might be out. doesn't seem like there's much evidence for it.

  9. #19
    Senior Member surgery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i like this.
    <3

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i see istps 3s as athletes and many famous crazy celebrities. think michael jordan and tom cruise. a very strong I WILL MAKE YOU LOVE ME kind of feeling i get from them. i will not stop, etc. do you disagree with typing them as 3w4 sx/sp? i was toying with typing hunter s thompson as 3w4 vs 7w8 for quentin tarantino. but most people thought hunter was a 7w8.
    Are you familiar with American Psycho? I think the character, Patrick Bateman, played by Christian Bale must be a 3w4.
    Consequently, whenever I see an image of Bale outside of that role, I immediately think 3w4.
    I sort of subconsciously labeled him as 3w4 too, but I don't have any real evidence of that.

    Would you agree that Tom Cruise plays a lot of action roles? I've seem him typed as ESTP.
    His roles are intense, and he brings that same intensity off the screen as on. Is this what makes you conclude 3w4?

    I would imagine that ETJs are frequently successful athletes too -- not just SPs. Aside from jumping up and down on Oprah's couch, is there are reason why Tom Cruise couldn't be TJ?
    Perhaps we confusing his characters with his real self? Or does he naturally gravitate to those roles because of his preference for Extraverted Sensation?

    Also, type Three wants success in order to have their identity validated. What about type Eights? They can be equally driven and successful, but in order to assert their independence, and thus, dominance.

    To me, Michael Jordan is too ridiculously successful to not be a Three. Yet, to me, that doesn't suggest STP more than TJ. Same for Cruise, but I wouldn't assume he's a Three too or that many successful STP athletes are.

    I'm not familiar with Tarantino or Thompson.
    Yikes, I don't know. It's just so difficult to type celebrities.


    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i see 3 as being strongly correlated with Fe-Ti.
    I can totally see this.

    However, Ti-Fe seems very unlikely for 3w4 to me because I think it leads to resisting social expectations, especially when unhealthy.
    Dominant Introverted Thinking supposedly does what it wants, which leads to my problem with in in correlation with 3w4: inefficiency.
    ITPs seem like the least committed to meeting goals they don't set for themselves, especially ones that require planning, step-by-step tasks, etc.
    It would prove difficult to find success in with that as many different areas as Threes do with that mentality.

    Introverted Thinking skillsets can, at times, be more flexible when contrasted with Extraverted Thinking.
    However, I don't think Ti motivates a person to do more, in a traditional "to-do list fashion."
    If ISTP 3w4 does occur, and frequently, would they almost exclusively gravitate towards athletics or the arts?

    Honestly, I know very few STPs or EJs at personal level. The ISTP I know is type Nine. I know an ESFJ who was stuck between 3w2 and 2w3.



    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i don't see how ntjs could be 3s because i see them, generally, as quite poor at image management. contending with the feelings of others and creating an image of themselves in those eyes in order to escape an inner sense of shame. i see ntj perfectionism more manifested as e1. but admittedly i am no expert on ntjs.
    With Te-Fi, I don't think the effects are quite the same, but I don't have my L. Thompson book with me at the moment, so I can't give any references right now.
    You make a good point though. How likely are ENTJs to curtail their beliefs in order to get ahead?

    Perhaps with inferior Introverted Feeling, ENTJ 3s wouldn't naturally tune into the why behind their goals.
    It's an personal value from their environment that they've confused with a measurable, objective structure.
    Thus, their focus goes on meeting how to meet the goal, what resources will they have to spend, what's am I going to do next?

    So, as for image maintenance, an ENTJ 3 wouldn't think twice about adjusting their beliefs because it's just another part of meeting the ends.

    Honestly, that seems a little out there.Threes value efficiency and defined goals, which I immediately associate with Extraverted Thinking. So, the correlation just seemed natural to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i don't know if infj sx/so even exists, which would be the most blurred, assertive version of infj.
    Until now, I assumed that the instincts could be applied to any type. Have you read or heard anything that says otherwise? What are you personal thoughts on that?

  10. #20
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